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Általa írva Dr. Bright, 02.12.2022 at 16:49

I can post in the forums again. Fear me!

i give him 10 days before he gets banned again ♥

Hey! Right now there's a discussion on duel "farmers" again, not much other than that.

Can we expect a Christmas event this year? I can handle the verification/PC hand outs if you add it.

Hello, just want to say that yes, I am still alive. Been a little busy lately, as you may have noticed... and probably you won't see much of me through the end of the year either. But I am still here, and still keeping the lights on.

So how are you guys doing?

Update:
I have been asked to finish up this tourney. Messaged the host and three remaining players details to complete this tourney.

Általa írva marcusblackwell, 23.11.2022 at 19:46

I'm approaching to 7200 SP. Why should I buy Expendable Infantry over Cheap and Safer Transportation?

The aim is to focus your upgrades on your infantry (the most used unit given your strategy) to be on par with the top players. Having weaker / more expensive inf will put you at a disadvantage.

It may seem attractive to beef up your transports, but you only build a few of those each game, compared to the hundreds of imp you'll build each game. So Expendable Infantry > Cheap/Safe Transportation.

Általa írva El Serbio, 23.11.2022 at 07:15

...

Every year same disussions and same problem.. Farming noobs and camping when reach 1300+.. All of them do the same.. What Staff do? Nothing! They just start new discussion every year and ask pLaYeRs about opinion.. Players are stupid and they dont care about system improvement, they are selfish and care only about themselfs, so dont ask players! Admins should do something what they think will make this whole duel system better.. For example, i dont like your idea at all mecoy, but i would love to see it cause it will make this whole system better, or any other idea which will make system better. Just do something(admins) as you did with cw system.. Cw system is now great, something has to be changed with duel system either or we will have same useless discussions every year.. Duel trophies became worthless and meaningless..


MAKE DUELS GREAT AGAIN!

i don't duel... dave doesn't duel... not sure if Sid duels much. But these discussions are necessary. The exact same discussions preceded the CW system changes... just give it time.

In.

Yes, something that like has been proposed. In my view, this would be a good test of skill. If there is some support from the dueling community, i can start a forum post that would hammer out the details, and then we'd put it to a vote among the most active members of the dueling community.

Általa írva Lev Davidovic, 16.11.2022 at 13:37

...


I invite the community to express their opinions and how they think about it, at least the competitive one, so maybe we can come up with something.

there's a few ideas expressed over the years... one of my favourites is 2 game sets where you pick your opponents strat, and then a bunch of mid level countries are randomized for both players. (e.g. on a 5 or 10k EU map, Poland, Yugoslavia, Denmark, Sweden, Greece, Volga) For the second game, The players then reverse strats and countries, so they have exact same starting conditions.

Általa írva Yacer, 16.11.2022 at 07:13

Általa írva brianwl, 16.11.2022 at 01:23

Általa írva Yacer, 15.11.2022 at 05:36

Include multiple factors to calculate the duel seasonal ELO. 4 factors:

1. Seasonal ELO
2. Total ELO
3. Rank
4. SP collected at that ELO

...

Yes as you mentioned, a longer game gives players a better opportunity to prove themselves. So SP can be replaced by the number of turns played to not have the starting funds affecting the elo and the number of duels can be replaced by rank factor as I mentioned.

So the 4 factors can also be:
1. Seasonal ELO
2. Total ELO
3. Number of Duels
4. Turns Played at Duel

This makes more sense... i can see how each of these factors could provide some balance over the course of a season, and also encourage players to play, rather than camp, when they get to first place.

Általa írva Lev Davidovic, 16.11.2022 at 10:51

Általa írva brianwl, 16.11.2022 at 01:23

...

... in 3k games every single unit is important, if you make one mistake you lose the game, in 50k duels its different, you can recover from many singles mistakes, the skills in 50k game is macromanagement, in 3k - 1k games is micromanagement, is just different (i'm not saying one is better then the other, just the same in different ways). ...

...
btw brianwl i'm of course open to vote it to, or set up a poll or survey after it's been discussed, hoping the community can agree that it needs to be addressed.



...

Agree... just not sure then what metric can be used to measure this. Ideas?

The only reason i mentioned number of turns is that i would predict two skilled players, each good with micro and macro management would be more likely to have a longer game, regardless of the map they chose. Of course two completely unskilled players could also have a long game, but when a skilled player matches up with an unskilled player the game tends to be shorter, so i figured number of turns might be a way of providing some (not a lot) balance over the course of the season.

Also, you got me thinking... low starting funds games are less forgiving. So maybe low starting funds games could be weighted bit more. The only issue i have with this though is first turn expansions in low income games can sometimes depend a lot on luck. If you fail taking a city (for instance Lux attempts taking Belgium and Netherlands in a 1 k game, and gets bad rolls on both battles) you are almost guaranteed to lose. But if you are successful taking both, you have a strong advantage. Thoughts?

Általa írva El Serbio, 16.11.2022 at 08:40

Általa írva brianwl, 13.08.2021 at 12:23

For this discussion, again i'd like to keep it very specific. One issue i can see already is the notion of turning the rankings into a tournament. Tournaments are already a 'thing' and if someone wants to host a tourney, full support. I'll even host if that's what players want.

Hosting tournament is easy, but working on it is hard.. Host started tourney and just dissapear without any word... No one else took his place and what we got? We got this https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=48840
Tournament which last for 6 months already.. What was these deadlines then if this happend?? Host left and pavle and pheno is not playing their match.. I know, you didnt host this tourney etc.. But its hosted by supporter(part of aw team), admin/mods/supporter should take apoc place and finish it already.. Thank you.

The reason i offered to host is i can put hard limits on when games need to be finished and warn players ahead of time not to join if they have no time to play. I have a track record for ending tournaments on schedule, but no one has asked me to host.

Általa írva Lev Davidovic, 15.11.2022 at 10:52

....
The main problem we have nowadays, which i mentioned, and the reason for why the "recent interest" made bump this thread again, is the farming point. ...
The question that arises is whether it is right and correct for a player to choose his single map, his time, his strategy, his rules, his gameplay, always in exactly the same way .... ,,,

Maybe we can have a survey or something, to see what anybody (at least in competitive) thinks about it. If players and community agrees massively on changes to make duels more fair and avoid farming or shorcut or uncorrect behaviour, maybe the times can be ripe to see those changes.

Peace

So resolving the issue of a player mastering a narrow play style for a specific map using a specific strategy is a challenge.

There are a number of solutions to this... and you've mentioned a few. There is a moral element to this problem that won't be overcome... and the players who do this tend to be oblivious as to why it's a problem. Generally, people who have a 'win at all costs' attitude are the players most likely to do this (use exactly same game play using same map, strat, etc. ). Don't get me wrong... these players spend a lot of time practicing and perfecting their game style, and invest a lot into it. This is why in the past, efforts to address this don't get too far.

I'm perfectly open to a vote on it, and can set up a poll or survey after it's been discussed a bit more, to see if the community can agree that it needs to be addressed.

Általa írva Yacer, 15.11.2022 at 05:36

Include multiple factors to calculate the duel seasonal ELO. 4 factors:

1. Seasonal ELO
2. Total ELO
3. Rank
4. SP collected at that ELO

In this case, Yacer proposed 4 factors, and then suggested weighting them as follows:

Duel Seasonal ELO 60%
Total ELO 20%
Rank 10%
SP Collected 10%

Rank and SP are fairly low percentages, so from my perspective, Yacer sees that these shouldn't be weighted much. I do agree with Lev though.. Rank doesn't seem like a factor that would balance things overall.

I read Yacer's example, but it's based on the notion that a higher rank is more skilled than a lower rank. This simply isn't my experience. Rank does not equate with skill. There 'might' be a slight advantage if an unskilled low rank lacks upgrades to compete, but i can't imagine there are more than a handful of these players dueling. In the big picture, i think factoring rank into the calculation would simply give an unwarranted advantage based on rank. You'd balance the specific example given (yes in a world of clones, higher ranks would be expected to be more difficult, so then it would make more sense) but i think it would create a greater imbalance overall, by giving an advantage based solely on rank.

If i'm missing something Yacer, you're going to have to give me more detail or another example as to why it's a necessary factor.

The SP collected example shows a more interesting dynamic. Clearly more skill is involved in longer games in which both players have an opportunity to apply some actual strategy. One of the things i definitely dislike since the competitive community steamrolled over the +1 inf city bonus is that rushing a cap leads to a play style that doesn't involve a ton of skill, and makes for exceptionally quick games that involve no thought or complex strategy.

However i think Lev pointed out the problem with using SP. It would lead to players only using high income maps, with high starting funds, further reducing the diversity of strategy and play styles.

But i can see the point... perhaps factoring in things like {total cities captured} x {number of turns} would solve the problem. (So a longer, balanced game, in which players captured, lost and recaptured cities would be weighted more than a simple cap rush that ends after 4 turns.) This wouldn't give low income maps a disadvantage.

Given recent interest in revamping duels, i'm bumping this thread ♥

Given recent interest in revamping duels, i'm bumping this thread so players can see what has already been discussed, and why we are at an impasse. Please offer your suggestions. ♥

Given recent interest in revamping duels, i'm bumping this thread so players can add their votes. ♥

Given recent interest in revamping duels, i'm bumping this thread so players can see what has already been discussed, and why we are at an impasse. Please offer your suggestions. ♥

There is if it's the same unit. Select the country and choose the unit... all cities will show the icon for that unit.
Then go to the 'auto production' tab and execute the production. All units will now be recruited.

If you want different units, you have to go city by city, so it's more mouse clicks.

It's not that we want players to do this kind of farming, we're just kind of waiting for a solution. The solution mods came to a while ago was restricting dueling to rank 6+ players through code. I'm pretty sure Dave said he was ok with it, but I'm not going to speak for him. So thats kind of where we're at.

If that gets implemented btw, the plan is to remove the rule regarding dueling on alts.

I don't like the idea of making extra rules to cover something the game mechanics currently allow.

Agree entirely with Brian. I've removed the promotion.

Please do share your ideas about this, my personal conclusion is that enforcing any kind of "duel reform" would be unnecessary strain on moderators and the solution would have to be coded in.

Posts specifically about other players are considered pillory. The above discussion is relevant in general, but because it contains specific players, i'm locking for now in accordance with rules. Please feel free to reopen the discussion, but keep the focus on the issues, and not the player.

I don't see any bans on any account linked to you. Who banned you?

Yes

Congratulations to Prestige!

The standings are:
1. Prestige
2. Belligerent

I've either handed out the prizes or contacted the leaders about how to distribute.

I got permission to hand out the CW prizes for last season, sorry about the wait time. One problem though, I don't know who won because i've been out of the CW scene for some time.

Can someone help me with 1st place - 4th please?

Általa írva ygnus, 26.10.2022 at 21:12

... We called briawn but he dont make nothing.. :/

If i didn't respond, i may have been afk, or just catatonic at the time. There is a discussion in mod forum on how to more effectively manage this problem. ♥

One of the best feelings we get as mods is catching these guys farm a number of games after the fact, and taking all that SP, upgrades, etc, and banning them.

Általa írva Ubirajah, 17.10.2022 at 20:43

No... is not this... its about the defence bonus... they are not shown in the game

When you hover over a stack and it shows the attack and defense numbers, this is for 'no strat' units. No bonuses are shown, nor are hitpoints factored in (particularly misleading when attacking for maps with unique units).

Általa írva Jujutsu Kaisen, 12.10.2022 at 00:43

Can I make this topic as a note? ...

Maybe in offtopic.. this wouldn't be a general discussion topic, and would be more appropriate to take your own notes rather than post them here. Moved to off-topic for now, but this thread will likely be locked if it's for your own personal use.