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Általa írva Conscious Huarck, 06.11.2021 at 03:12

I see that CC doesn't have +1600 elo, but he's undoubtedly one of the best Atwar players. So I think he's worthy of being on the GM list. And also, he carried clans back when he was more active; now he's probably busy with life and kids !?

All of the other GMs have said as much too lol.

Obviously he was talking about DaveTheDino

I mean, he's not even the first guy named Dave to become an admin here...

abfahren was lol.

Általa írva ITSGG1122, 05.11.2021 at 17:41

Általa írva Sid, 05.11.2021 at 17:29

Általa írva sirivann, 05.11.2021 at 17:13

Általa írva Sid, 05.11.2021 at 15:58

Doesn't include Scen/RP "communities"
This is by design, none of them have mastered the base mechanics of the game sufficiently just by playing Scenarios/RP/other maps/other presets. They have a fundamentally different view on what fun is in this game I think. I'm willing to accept I might be wrong about this, but we'll see when a tournament between them and GM's gets made. If it turns out that I am wrong, I will find a way to include them.

What base mechanics do you think are only seen in world map that isnt in others let alone mastered O.o

They're not even seen in the world map "community" either! Almost no world player knows TB mechanics, long term planning done early game, how to fight across oceans, how to use stealth properly or how to defend from it, learning meta of different strategies, etc. Everyone who does learned it from the competitive field. Those things might not be taught in competitive, but the mindset and critical thinking required are. I'm only speaking for world players as i don't play scenarios / other maps myself.

Come play scenarios where u could own like more lands than in world map. Try to micro that.
TB is a thing in every map. All players who are decent know about this.
Lots of scenarios where u can cross oceans, different strategies, stealth etc. I didnt learn any of that in competitive field, all in scenarios.
One thing i havent seen EU players think about is how HP works.

You think u can come fight me and not figure out i am blitz or IF in some scenario?
Come fight me in Third age with ur team of grandmasters and show how grandmaster you are.

80% of maps are smaller or based on the world map. I know micro'ing large amounts of units fairly well.

I'm doing great, how are you?

People usually only message me to ask me to do stuff. It's so rare anybody messages me just to ask how I'm doing. I think I'm gonna cry

Általa írva sirivann, 05.11.2021 at 17:13

Általa írva Sid, 05.11.2021 at 15:58

Doesn't include Scen/RP "communities"
This is by design, none of them have mastered the base mechanics of the game sufficiently just by playing Scenarios/RP/other maps/other presets. They have a fundamentally different view on what fun is in this game I think. I'm willing to accept I might be wrong about this, but we'll see when a tournament between them and GM's gets made. If it turns out that I am wrong, I will find a way to include them.

What base mechanics do you think are only seen in world map that isnt in others let alone mastered O.o

They're not even seen in the world map "community" either! Almost no world player knows TB mechanics, long term planning done early game, how to fight across oceans, how to use stealth properly or how to defend from it, learning meta of different strategies, etc. Everyone who does learned it from the competitive field. Those things might not be taught in competitive, but the mindset and critical thinking required are. I'm only speaking for world players as i don't play scenarios / other maps myself.

Általa írva Lelouch., 05.11.2021 at 16:51

Általa írva Sid, 05.11.2021 at 16:15

Általa írva Lelouch., 05.11.2021 at 16:05

Általa írva Sid, 05.11.2021 at 15:58

This is my favorite argument, because i thought about this quite a bit before making this list. I didn't want this list to be "my list". I wanted it to be the communities list. If the staff chose the GMs/AMs then they likely wouldn't be accepted. Tournaments don't go to completion like 60% of the time so i didn't want to base it off of that. And I trust the GMs and AMs will only sign off on players who are skilled enough according to their definition.

Hopefully this satisfies your concerns!

You need to show some evidence of this. past tournament results are legitimate in my opinion and should be considered. Same for past seasonal trophies. Right, now, you didn't show any evidence or reasoning as to why the people on the initial list deserve to skip nominations. Otherwise, it does look like your list.

We have to start somewhere, so i added all the current competitive players with atleast 1400 elo (or had that elo very recently) that dueled or cw'd in the last 30 days. You're right that they shouldn't have skipped the nominations process, but i needed judges, if everyone could vote then it would have been trolled immediately lol. The biggest concern i had was that you guys wouldn't accept the initial AMs/GMs but it seems like mostly everyone who was chosen should be there. If you want proof about the tournaments, look at the forums, it's a lot of started and not finished tournaments, which can be BS'd easily anyways. we might get like 1 AM every year if we went off of tournaments alone. You are free to use your vote/nomination to only include past tournies/seasonal trophies.

Okay, new AMs get added through nominations mainly. I'm saying, for your INITIAL list, try to use more results to back this up. I'm not saying that every new AM needs some achievements to get added. Because it is as you say. It would be like 1 AM a year. I get that. I'm just saying, be more strict for this INITIAL list. And lower the requirements once you're sure you have a good set of judges, rather than just making your initial list with a 1400 elo requirement.

And the unfinished tournament situation is only a thing right now. That was not the case a few years back. Those results are legitimate and SHOULD be considered for people skipping the line. That's all I'm saying.

Fair point, what do you suggest i do now? Whatever the solution is, it should be based on current skill. I don't want inactives to be able to become GMs/AMs.

Általa írva Frieren, 05.11.2021 at 16:18

Általa írva Sid, 05.11.2021 at 15:58

Why so many ams, they aren't even that good.

They're all better than you. You can really only give Dominicano a run for his money tbh, and he seems to go through phases of playing like a 1500 player and then playing like a 1200 player.

Általa írva Lelouch., 05.11.2021 at 16:05

Általa írva Sid, 05.11.2021 at 15:58

This is my favorite argument, because i thought about this quite a bit before making this list. I didn't want this list to be "my list". I wanted it to be the communities list. If the staff chose the GMs/AMs then they likely wouldn't be accepted. Tournaments don't go to completion like 60% of the time so i didn't want to base it off of that. And I trust the GMs and AMs will only sign off on players who are skilled enough according to their definition.

Hopefully this satisfies your concerns!

You need to show some evidence of this. past tournament results are legitimate in my opinion and should be considered. Same for past seasonal trophies. Right, now, you didn't show any evidence or reasoning as to why the people on the initial list deserve to skip nominations. Otherwise, it does look like your list.

We have to start somewhere, so i added all the current competitive players with atleast 1400 elo (or had that elo very recently) that dueled or cw'd in the last 30 days. You're right that they shouldn't have skipped the nominations process, but i needed judges, if everyone could vote then it would have been trolled immediately lol. The biggest concern i had was that you guys wouldn't accept the initial AMs/GMs but it seems like mostly everyone who was chosen should be there. If you want proof about the tournaments, look at the forums, it's a lot of started and not finished tournaments, which can be BS'd easily anyways. we might get like 1 AM every year if we went off of tournaments alone. You are free to use your vote/nomination to only include past tournies/seasonal trophies.

Általa írva Lelouch., 05.11.2021 at 11:30

My intention with this post is not to be a party pooper or to hinder any formalization of what the competitive state of this game is. I just wish to share my opinion on this system as a whole.

Other than the reason that I mentioned (formalizing the competitive state of the game) as well as trying to formalize some sort of tier list for what skill is in this game, I don't see any other reason why we need this in the game. If anyone can come up with more reasons why that are constructive for the game, please let me know.

Furthermore, this system doesn't fully succeed at doing those two things fundamentally. Atwar is a complicated game, and it is not a standardized game. There is no formal or strict definition for what 'competitive' is. You can say that it's 10k EU+ 4 min. But that's just based on majority. It's not even like all tournaments in this game use that setting anyways. Not only that, but skill in this game is multi-criteria and subjective to opinion. A person can be extremely good in a specific setting in this game, and just above average in the rest, while you can have players who excel at most settings. With that in mind, you can't come in and define what an 'Atwar Grandmaster' is in the way that this system tries to do. I mean, you're basically disregarding a big part of the community here. I know that you've implicitly narrowed the scope in the description by saying that this pertains to EU+, but the title is misleading. And even then, EU+ by itself is complicated and can be subdivided further. That's why you have Master of West, Master of East, CW tournaments, 5k, low-turn-time tournaments, etc.

Furthermore, you add to that the element of nominations, adding even more subjectivity to the matter. Any top player can in theory nominate anyone. Also, the descriptions for the titles themselves are subjective and ambiguous: "extremely skilled yet aren't quite GM level". This is a very basic explanation but, in chess, you become a grandmaster through norms, which you earn by performing well in tournaments which are exclusive to very high level players, players who are better than you on paper. You don't just beat one GM and become a GM. You have to consistently perform well in this higher skill environment. This is a more objective system. And it is detached from what the player's ELO rating is. You basically remove rating from the equation by making it fully based on results. You could have a Grandmaster title and have a below-average-rating for the players with that title. It is very hard to do this in Atwar. There are technically no 'official' regular tournaments. All tournaments are hosted by community members, sometimes once a year. And the decrease in activity has also decreased the frequency and legitimacy of these tournaments. I mean, the last Master of East started months ago and hasn't finished. The next Master of West should've already started by now.

I appreciate what this system is trying to do. It can help new players who care about improving to understand how do top players fall on a scale, and it can give them something to strive or to improve towards. But, unless this system improves somehow, people will just see this as a circle jerk.

Ok let me break this down because it's very confusing and i'm not sure what you're saying in the first half.

Here's what I gathered from your post:

• Doesn't include Scen/RP "communities"
• There isn't a formal definition of competitive?
• Someone can be good at one setting and not another in Eu+
• Any top player can nominate anyone
• Title description is vague for how narrow the scope is
• Difference in chess vs this system

Doesn't include Scen/RP "communities"
This is by design, none of them have mastered the base mechanics of the game sufficiently just by playing Scenarios/RP/other maps/other presets. They have a fundamentally different view on what fun is in this game I think. I'm willing to accept I might be wrong about this, but we'll see when a tournament between them and GM's gets made. If it turns out that I am wrong, I will find a way to include them.

There isn't a formal definition of competitive?
There is, it's dueling and CWing. Any setting in either of those is competitive by definition. That includes scenarios and other maps but it just so happens that players who play mostly other maps/scenarios DECIDE not to duel or CW on them.

Someone can be good at one setting and not another in Eu+
True, that is why the definition of GM will also include 'mastered all of Eu+'. You must be well rounded to be a GM <- this is the sole reason why I didn't put you as a GM.

Any top player can nominate anyone
Not true, you must first meet the other prerequisites. If you can meet the prerequisites and convince 5 AMs or 2 GMs and 1 AM to nominate you then you deserve to be on the list. I will of course delete "troll" nominations but the way the system is created, it's hard to troll in the first place.

Title description is vague for how narrow the scope is
True, it is vague for how specific i made the scope. But as i said previously, the scope i created defines the objective as best as you can. The objective is the "best" player. The scope is what mostly everyone will accept as the place you find the best players. It's just not feasible to prove someone is a master on ALL maps or ALL scenarios when they don't play them competitively anyways, and it wouldn't prove anything substantially different from what my scope provides either (pending i'm correct about Scen/RP players).

Difference in chess vs this system
This is my favorite argument, because i thought about this quite a bit before making this list. I didn't want this list to be "my list". I wanted it to be the communities list. If the staff chose the GMs/AMs then they likely wouldn't be accepted. Tournaments don't go to completion like 60% of the time so i didn't want to base it off of that. And I trust the GMs and AMs will only sign off on players who are skilled enough according to their definition.

Hopefully this satisfies your concerns!

Általa írva Hibiki Verniy, 05.11.2021 at 03:11

ScenComp Drama aside, I wonder how many of those AMs will underperform assuming the map goes from EU+ to Asia/Africa/or any other preset.

I am a world player first and foremost, so i see how they perform in world games. They are typically a dominate force as long as they can stay focused and don't quit halfway through lol.

I redid the look a little bit, hopefully this looks more prestigious.

Általa írva Tribune Aquila, 03.11.2021 at 15:57

There needs to be Competitive "Beta" Grandmasters, scenario Grandmasters, and RP Grandmasters, each with their own nomination process

An "RP Grandmaster" is on average about as skilled as a rank 7-8 in competitive. Not going to call them GM/AM in this list.

Welcome to: Sid pisses off scen community with 2 posts. I expected this to be a shitshow, but for different reasons lol

Brutal Slayer for AM

Brutal Slayer has been Added to the list by Sid, Tungston., Froyer (2 votes), and LuciferStar

Általa írva Froyer, 03.11.2021 at 06:54

Brutal should be Grandmaster, 1700+ elo peak and carried hellenism to 1100+ elo this season.

You are free to nominate him for AM first. I forgot to set the bar at 30 days of active in cw/duel OR during the current season, I fixed it.

Általa írva JUGERS2, 03.11.2021 at 06:33

Általa írva Sid, 03.11.2021 at 06:31

Általa írva JUGERS2, 03.11.2021 at 06:23

Általa írva The Panda Jew, 03.11.2021 at 06:20

What about those of us that cw but don't duel?

Doesn't really matter friend... don't even bother finding logic behind this. Many nomited because of 1 duel/cw played last 30 days, others nominated for 0.9, -30 or-200 elo while the best one of all is the grandmaster cc.

I have to set a "limit" on activeness somewhere, and 30 days seemed the most appropriate. Even if the players don't currently have the elo requirement, they held it for a decent period of time before or just recently (within 2 days) went below it. CC for instance had over 1600 elo for a large portion of time and he is arguably one of the best people you could have in a CW right next to WD.

" Opinions are like butholes, everyone has one"
~popular quote

Yes i know i'm not perfect, that's why i'm not touching the player list on there anymore until people get nominated and it fixes itself.

Általa írva JUGERS2, 03.11.2021 at 06:23

Általa írva The Panda Jew, 03.11.2021 at 06:20

What about those of us that cw but don't duel?

Doesn't really matter friend... don't even bother finding logic behind this. Many nomited because of 1 duel/cw played last 30 days, others nominated for 0.9, -30 or-200 elo while the best one of all is the grandmaster cc.

I have to set a "limit" on activeness somewhere, and 30 days seemed the most appropriate. Even if the players don't currently have the elo requirement, they held it for a decent period of time before or just recently (within 2 days) went below it. CC for instance had over 1600 elo for a large portion of time and he is arguably one of the best people you could have in a CW right next to WD.

Általa írva The Panda Jew, 03.11.2021 at 06:20

What about those of us that cw but don't duel?

Ya gotta have all the pieces to solve the puzzle. Elo is the most objective thing we can use to determine skill. If you only got clan elo then we don't really know anything about you personally

Általa írva Ivan., 03.11.2021 at 04:04

Általa írva Sid, 03.11.2021 at 03:58

Általa írva Ivan., 03.11.2021 at 03:55

Well it's just prediction from you and nothing else, unless they play they does not qualify for other preset.

We see a lot of competitive players going into scenarios, or other maps and they typically decimate everyone in them after a little practice. You don't see the reverse happen in more than 1-2 special cases. If that is the case though then they should only need minor practice to master Eu+ and get a title through my requirements. I picked Eu+ because it's the most known and played.

Come on Sid be real unless they don't play they don't qualify, it's something for later when they start playing it and 98% of player won't even play other preset, I'm not talking about scenarios but the preset available of world map till now.

When some other preset or map becomes the generally most played then we can make that the defining map/preset. It would be entirely too hard to measure people playing in different presets or maps on a fair scale because of balance issues with the rest of the presets/maps that don't particularly exist with standard Eu+.

Általa írva Ivan., 03.11.2021 at 03:55

Well it's just prediction from you and nothing else, unless they play they does not qualify for other preset.

We see a lot of competitive players going into scenarios, or other maps and they typically decimate everyone in them after a little practice. You don't see the reverse happen in more than 1-2 special cases. If that is the case though then they should only need minor practice to master Eu+ and get a title through my requirements. I picked Eu+ because it's the most known and played. We gotta set a standard somewhere and Eu+ is kind of the only option.

Általa írva Ivan., 03.11.2021 at 03:51

Általa írva Sid, 03.11.2021 at 03:48

Általa írva Ivan., 03.11.2021 at 03:46

Kindly correct the name " Master/Grand of eu+" only.
98% of players you mention only plays eu+.
So by saying it's an insult to the players who actually play in all areas.

Don't limitize the scope.

You pretty much have to play duels and cws to become the best in the game. I limited the scope because the scope defines the objective. Dueling and CWing is an somewhat objective measure, everything else is hard to measure imo. You are free to create a list of Scenario Grand Masters

I never said something related to scen, all I'm saying rename it to eu+ and there is a reason 99.9% people
here only plays on eu+ and nothing else and if they play any other preset I'm sure 80% of Master players you mention won't even qualify.

I'm willing to bet that you are wrong about that, if you master Eu+ you only need minor practice to master other presets or maps.

Általa írva Ivan., 03.11.2021 at 03:46

Kindly correct the name " Master/Grand of eu+" only.
98% of players you mention only plays eu+.
So by saying it's an insult to the players who actually play in all areas.

Don't limitize the scope.

You pretty much have to play duels and cws to become the best in the game. And the best in the game can pretty much hop in most maps or scenarios and be dominate still after a few games because they have mastered the core mechanics already. I limited the scope because the scope defines the objective. Dueling and CWing is a somewhat objective measure, everything else is hard to measure imo. You are free to create a list of Scenario Grand Masters

I made this list to be self-preserving, so you guys should nominate people you think are good candidates. Some people I put here didn't technically make the qualifications at this time but they are currently active and have more than met the qualifications previously. I didn't include inactives so as to not start a flame war, if you're inactive and want on this list, you have to be nominated. Even though this is currently an "active only" list, you cannot have a title removed so you can go inactive and you will still retain it when you return. Please feel free to talk about my bad decisions or anything else here

---

Requirements to become a Grand Master

• Must be nominated and accepted by atleast 75% or atleast 5 Grand Masters
  
• Must have atleast 1600 regular Elo for the duration of the nomination process
  
• Must be a vital asset to CWs and have completely mastered all of Europe+ dueling
  
• Must be a current AtWar Master
  

Requirements to become a AtWar Master

• Must be nominated and accepted by atleast 5 Atwar Masters (Grand Master votes count for 2 here)
  
• Must have atleast 1400 regular Elo for the duration of the nomination process
  
• Must be a contributing asset to CWs and have become a master of Europe+ dueling
  

Please discuss here
If you wish to nominate someone, post here:https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=48163

---

Requirements to become a Grand Master

• Must be nominated and accepted by atleast 75% or atleast 5 Grand Masters
  
• Must have atleast 1600 regular Elo for the duration of the nomination process
  
• Must be a vital asset to CWs and have completely mastered all of Europe+ dueling
  
• Must be a current AtWar Master
  

Requirements to become a AtWar Master

• Must be nominated and accepted by atleast 5 Atwar Masters (Grand Master votes count for 2 here)
  
• Must have atleast 1400 regular Elo for the duration of the nomination process
  
• Must be a contributing asset to CWs and have become a master of Europe+ dueling
  

PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING | How to nominate / Rules of this thread

• You must be atleast an AtWar Master to nominate anyone, only GM's can nominate someone for GM.
  
• Nominations must be currently active in the game, must be active in the CW scene or Duel scene in the last 30 days or during the current season (whichever is longer).
  
• Post here the name and profile of the person you wish to nominate
  
• Please only 1 nomination per post.
  
• Upvotes will count as an additional nomination
  
• Please do not repost a nomination of someone, upvote the existing nomination if you wish to cast a favorable vote.
  
• Please do not post here if you do not wish to nominate someone, a second discussions thread can be found here: https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=48164
  
• Titles can not be taken away.
  
• Once someone receives enough nominations, any mod can edit this post.
  
• No one is obligated to cast a nomination to anyone, the masters may choose how they define a GM or AM according to their own beliefs.
  
• Please do not troll this thread.
  
• If you believe you are missing from a list here, ask a master to nominate you
  

Általa írva Full House, 02.11.2021 at 11:37

I think last year (might be 2 or 3 years actually) ago there was a halloween specific atwar theme durin halloween weekend which was pretty fire if i dare say so. Since we have same AW theme for most of the year I appreciated sth different to spice things up a little. This year we didnt had any special theme i think.

Don´t @ me !

You're right, I was thinking about doing the music again but then I thought nah, people will get tired of it if I do the same thing twice in a row. Maybe I should have done it anyway.

Anyway thanks for the comment, I didn't know anybody had noticed the music last year. I'll do it next time.

This is now fixed.

Although as Khauman correctly points out, there are tons of other inspect element possibilities around here.... I'll be fixing them for years to come

There already is one, it's called off topic

Okay that's it folks, hope you enjoyed our 2021 Halloween weekend. See you at the next event!

Általa írva Ovuvuevue Osas, 01.11.2021 at 01:23

Https://imgur.com/a/ipu001W
I forgot my game link

Name: TankiOnlineen

I found it. ProtoCoins delivered