Fejlesztői üzenetek

Általa írva cheetah12, 10.04.2025 at 19:20

I think bringing players back and mending the anger toward each other would help the game a lot, but sides need to be more open minded for y'all to reach and agreement. I agree"hi are you there or are you gonna ignore me?" is not a great way to start a conversation but you didn't have to block him. This game is dead and needs some kind of reviving, for example there was six in the room tonight

Noble sentiment, but please keep in mind I'm not the one trying to reach an agreement here. I am content with things as they are. I have no interest in bringing anyone back. If I were to do so, it would only be out of kindness to the people asking me. If somebody wants me to unban somebody, they should approach it from that perspective. Because I am quite happy with having less headaches to deal with, and I am totally fine with it if we never reach any agreement.

Általa írva winkcat, 10.04.2025 at 19:11

just keep hackers and people who are crazy toxic banned... so simple...

I agree. Bye bye.

Általa írva Palmitas, 10.04.2025 at 17:28

Dave as a genuine question: IK you are not wanting to unban everyone, but, would you consider unbanning some people if they apologized to you correctly?

Yes, of course I will consider anyone case-by-case. Maybe they owe me an apology, maybe they don't. Maybe they need to do something else. It all depends on who it is.

Általa írva Phoenix, 10.04.2025 at 12:13

Neither of you are going to like what I have to say here but you both need to hear it.

In my view there is a spectrum of people that have been banned, some I think are redeemable but need to reconcile with Dave first and others who just shouldn't be here because they went too far.

Waffel, while you have some valid points and I can sympathise with your experience of being banned, you need to see that the way you're defending yourself also reads as further attacks on Dave. You guys clearly don't like each other, but the way you're going about picking apart what Dave did or didnt do and the way he sees the world isn't doing you or him or the community any favours, its self masturbatory, its unnecessary, - its an itch you keep scratching and the rash is only getting worse. I know you can type for hours on end, you should be a fucking lawyer if you're not one btw because you clearly have an accute sense of injustice... But here and now, its not helping anyone. Have you tried to see things from his perspective?

and Dave, this is your game, its your call what you do, but there is a case to be made for putting some of these guys on parole. I don't like Waffel either, he's irritating as fuck and he knows it, but he is a prime example of someone that should be placed on a prolonged mute as opposed to a perma ban, why? Because he's on the side of the game, he wants it to do well and continue, he just has a cracked way of showing it. If he didnt he wouldnt be bombarding you with these messages in the forums.

In my opinion, if I was in Daves shoes I probably would have banned Waffel too because he can't help himself, he's like a dog with a bone.. if he feels crossed, he won't let go. But after a while I would also probably get over it and be willling to bring him back with some kind of prolonged mute in effect and I wouldnt unmute him until I received an apology, because ultimately I see some of myself in him and I know it would take a lot for me to apologise too. I think the same can be said of others that were banned, but thats not for me to decide.

I'm not going to add any more to this post, all this ban drama is tiring and think we all need to move on. I meant what I said about Dave keeping the lights on, we should all show a little gratitude. I welcome others to do the same.

Sure there are cases to be made for putting certain people on parole. There are some people that will remain a hard "no" from me, while there are others I'm open to reconsidering. Especially those that never went through the appeals process to begin with. I'm willing to talk about anyone on a case-by-case basis.

Waffel I really don't know what do with. I honestly don't remember why he was banned. I guess that's why I've been allowing him to be here posting on his alt. But I was looking at the history and I see he was permabanned by Sid, and I've been thinking that I probably should be upholding that ban and removing his alt now. This would be following our standard policy and probably I've been too nice by not doing anything yet.

I honestly can't read Waffel's posts anyway... I try to, but after only a couple of lines he's already accusing me of things that I know are not true, and I just don't feel like wasting the time trying to correct him. I remember trying that already a long time ago and the dude just doesn't listen.... like no matter what I tell him, it gets muddled in his brain and turned into fresh accusations. I'm tired of it, so yes I ignore him. He reached out to me on Discord the other day because I guess he wanted to talk with me and smooth things out? But the way he came at me was "hi are you there or are you gonna ignore me?". The dude can't be normal and say "hi how are you?" he has to be combative right off the bat, so yeah I blocked him. I have concluded that any conversation with him is a waste of time at this point.

I guess I'm just waiting to see how this thread plays out before I ban & delete his alt.

Általa írva Sascha, 10.04.2025 at 10:17

Általa írva El Serbio, 10.04.2025 at 08:45

...

Just a few months ago, he made a video about an exploit and shared them with pretty much everyone. The video is now private, but honestly, if he had good intentions, he could've just told us directly.
As much as I would support the unban or 2nd chances for most people, he would be one of those where I'm not sure if it would be the right thing to do.
For everyone else, it would make me happy seeing some more old faces around, but it's not my call at the end of the day.

At last, I don't think I have to repeat what so many have already said, but Tiger29's and Domo's posts represent what I'm thinking more or less.

Bugs is a genuine psychopath. The last time I even mentioned his name (like 2 days ago) he showed up within an hour, made several posts on a new alt, and then as soon as I deleted and banned those we started getting ddos'd. It has been the same pattern with him for as long as I've been here, so what 6 years and counting? I hate to even mention his name now because it like summons him and he'll do the same shit again very soon. He's a guy who will never be allowed back, ever, under any circumstances.

I'm particularly interested in learning more about Orthodox Christianity, which was mentioned earlier in this thread. I admittedly don't know much about it, but what little I've heard and read sounds appealing to me. I've found there is a Greek Orthodox church near where I live, which I want to go visit but have not done so yet.

Lately I've also been considering the idea that maybe "good" and "evil" are forces that exist in the universe and that people are merely "lenses" (for lack of a better word) through which good or evil can flow? That maybe those people we consider "evil" are just more highly susceptible to allowing the evil force to flow through them? (I haven't fully thought this out...)

I went through an experience recently with someone who I genuinely thought was a "good" person, who turned out to actually be a very evil person. Not using the word "evil" lightly, I mean really one of the select few I've encountered in my life who I would actually apply the word "evil" to. It makes me think that evil sometimes masquerades as good in order to deceive you, which makes things even more confusing and difficult to figure out. But I digress. (This experience I'm referring to has no connection with atWar so please don't read too much into it.)

Általa írva Lev Davidovic, 09.04.2025 at 09:09

Dave man, i can't quite crack your code of behaviour. You keep the game running despite it dying, and i thank you for it. You even keep coming here anwering (almost) all the requests and comments (even if focusing on some parts and ignoring others). I love that, i interpret those as acts of a person who care, but in the same time the content of your comments seems to always state the same thing: "4 or more years have passed - not gonna change my mind - all those people will remain out of the game - all the discussion is (has been, will be) useless - game gonna keep dying deal with it".
It almost looks like you are a pure soul captive of your own ego, desperatly wrapped between trying to do the interest of the game (and the community) and standing still proving a point old years, blindly believing that relinquishing it will harm whats left of the game and the community.
I would love to help that pure soul, one way or an other (kill whats left of this game, perhaps sell it, or try save it), i just dont know how to.

There are people here who are mad at me because I'm not giving them what they want. According to them I'm an evil narcissist. So that's one possibility to explain my code of behavior.

Let me propose another possibility. I'm not going to tell you what to think -- all I ask is you consider the following, and then decide for yourself which explanation of my behavior best fits reality.

Maybe I'm not an egoist, or a narcissist, or even a bad guy at all.
Maybe I do care about atWar, and feel obligated to protect it / preserve it.
Maybe I really do believe that removing those people from the community was a net positive for atWar.
Maybe I reject the argument to "unban", not because I'm not hearing what people are saying, but because I believe it would be a mistake.
Maybe I think that less activity is preferable to bad activity.
Maybe I think we are actually better off this way.

I choose to answer you this because you seem like somebody who is rational and open to listening. Take from that what you will.

Általa írva 77TENGRI99, 09.04.2025 at 00:37

Me and jugers randomly got email from aw "heres your account id and password " this was few months later we left the game

Did it look like this?



If so, that's just an automated message that happens when some wiseguy puts your username here:



It definitely wasn't from me.

Általa írva 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

They expect dave to apologize or sell aw. He restored some deleted accs and sent simple email with id and password but they didnt want to come back

I don't know where you're getting your information Tengri. I have not restored any accounts or sent any emails. They need to apologize to me (and really to atWar as a whole), not the other way around.

Általa írva 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

Most banned or deleted people i know dont even want to come back.

Good! That's the whole point.

Általa írva clovis1122, 08.04.2025 at 14:14

Általa írva Dave, 01.04.2025 at 23:41

The only mistake I've made with atWar was actually caring TOO much about the community and what other people think. It caused me to waste too much time talking to people trying to make them see my position. Nobody cares. Waffel is the perfect example. I spent HOURS talking with that dude, listening to his concerns, telling him mine, and trying to reach understanding. Then he goes off and posts things which only show me that he absolutely did not understand anything I said. The lesson I've learned: people are gonna bitch no matter what. Nothing I say will change their minds. Just do what you need to do for the best interests of the game and ignore the noise.

I made the same mistake

I guess deep down, we'd like to believe we can solve differences through communication. And yet, that will just never work with some people. Identifying such people is a hard task... even after we decide to burn the bridge and cut ties, we're left wondering: had we communicated better... could we have settled our differences?

100% this.

Általa írva 4nic Smith, 08.04.2025 at 09:53

Cmon Dave, do the right thing, its now or never, general pardon my friends, they dindu nothing, general pardon even xbugs just tie his hands so he wont hack anymore.

Sorry cousin, but you know I'm doing the right thing by keeping the bad people outta here.

Általa írva Red.Army, 08.04.2025 at 06:54

They painting you out to be this evil guy who won't change his mind about banned players when it is simply not true. You and the mods didn't have to remove my permaban back during the pandemic, but you did

You're one of the few we gave a 2nd chance to who DIDN'T make us regret it. Thank you.

Általa írva LuciferStar, 07.04.2025 at 23:21

Well, this thread has certainly gained traction.

This is my (unwarranted?) two cents on the issue. Working in law has given me insight into the impulse to punish as a means of deterrence, which is entirely valid. Historically, punishment has been regarded as the most effective way to discourage unwanted behavior.

However, the legal system also incorporates statutes of limitations for good reason. If we imprisoned people indefinitely, our correctional facilities would quickly reach capacity.
After 4-5 years, it's reasonable to conclude that the point has been made. While punishments help maintain social order, second chances make our communities more humane and livable.

The competitive community is barely surviving, and realistically, extending second chances to players might breathe new life into what once united enthusiasts across the board. You can always reinstate bans if necessary, but taking a measured risk to improve the game's ecosystem seems like a reasonable gamble.

Consider that growth often comes from our willingness to reevaluate rigid positions. The strongest communities aren't those that punish forever, but those that create pathways for genuine rehabilitation and reintegration. At some point, we must ask ourselves what matters more: maintaining the permanence of old decisions or fostering an environment where people can demonstrate they've changed. The game's future might depend on our answer.

As someone who has also worked in the law, I know there are 2 different kinds of offenders. There are those who got into trouble, were punished, and straightened out their lives because of it, never getting in trouble again. And then there are those who are habitual offenders with rap sheets a mile long, who have never and will never learn.

I think almost no one who we banned or deleted back in 2021 was innocent. Most were habitual offenders to begin with. I have no interest in giving them 3rd, 4th, or however many chances. Let's just be honest: they are not going to be rehabilitated, and I'm not wasting time to try again.

Been there, done that.

Általa írva Weisser Wolf, 07.04.2025 at 22:39

Dave,

I think it goes without saying at this point—everyone has already shared their thoughts on the current state of the game: the players you've refused to unban, the slow pace of improvements, and the steady decline in activity. However, I'd like to comment on one particular aspect.

A true leader knows when to acknowledge a mistake. And if you're looking for examples, some of the most respected CEOs—like those of Microsoft or Apple—have publicly admitted when they've made the wrong call. That's not weakness, that's humility. I say this with the utmost respect: I hope you take a moment to genuinely reflect.

Even users often labeled as toxic or disruptive—like Kaska—have recognized that the mass banning of players has gone too far. And honestly, if someone like me, who used to be known for toxic behavior in duels and clan wars, can admit it was time to grow up and stop playing the victim, I believe change is possible. I had to take a "forced vacation" myself, and I now recognize how counterproductive that attitude was.

As Kaska suggested, why not simply unban those users but mute them from everything except private messages? What real harm could they do? If you give them a second chance, many of them might return—and with them, activity could increase again. We could even experiment with fresh concepts: maybe an "ancient season," or a rotation of never-before-seen maps. As we all know, atWar has near-infinite creative potential.

And if time or resources are the problem, subcontracting is always an option. Outsourcing some work to experienced developers—say, from Mexico or India—could go a long way. Believe me, as a business and process consultant, I say this from experience.

As many have said, an event where you make Waffel super admin or I don't know, something innovative while simply AIing the game or fixing bugs in the maps. And on the topic of Lion nuking the discord, please Dave, it's not like it was the end of the world. I bet Croat or someone else who had the power to do that over a little tantrum could have done it.

It's time to move into the future, even games that were abandonware are reviving thanks to the community, you need a real community manager for the game and maybe, dedicate yourself to the technical, marketing and business issues of the game and believe me many people in the community would be happy to help as it was in that era when Alois and not a certain bug abuser was the head supporter.

I know I'm repeating things others have already pointed out, but I still felt it was worth adding my two cents to the conversation.

I agree that a good leader admits when he is wrong and I like to believe I have that ability too. I've already stated in this thread that I made a mistake wasting too much time talking with the community instead of just focusing on what I knew needed to be done. But as regards removing the people who needed to be removed, I remain convinced it was the right decision.

I hear so many people say "give them a second chance", "maybe they've changed", or sentiments to this effect. Do you not realize, we already did that? Many of the troublemakers who ultimately got banned or deleted in 2021 were people who had ALREADY been through rounds of bans, appeals, and second chances. People must have short memory spans, but I still remember. So if you wonder why I'm unwilling to unban again, it's because we already tried that and it didn't work. I have no interest in going down that road again.

I am also surprised that for as much as people talk about the "good ol' days of atWar", the community, the friendships.... all these things people look back fondly at.... and yet they seem to have no problem with Lion having destroyed a big part of that history forever. It's paradoxical to me that anyone would miss the past and yet defend Lion destroying that same past.

Általa írva Kaska, 07.04.2025 at 20:11

(Also waffel, Fuck you)

Well at least on this we agree. It's a beginning

Általa írva Tiger29, 07.04.2025 at 19:44

This forum has been one of the best things that had happened in atwar recently. It actually has sparked activity in the game and revealed there is hope for this game. After reading all the post made I have come to a simple decision. There are a lot of players still willing to play but they are banned or mad at Dave. The Lion situation is one that constantly haunts this game, it is over a joke, Lion being young and stupid deleted a dead discord server. Maybe it's time Dave to consider unbanning him. He could be a asset to this game the few weeks he played there were CWs 2v2 old players having fun competing it was a blast for a new player hungry to learn. Then 1 day I logged on his alt was banned. Consequently 2v2s and 3v3s died and CWs stopped happening. Dave you said that Lion destroyed important discord stuff, but you are wrong discord has nothing to offer it's experienced players give nuggets and nurturing younger players so when they leave there is a new generation to carry the game. I have become a lot better player from the short time I new Lion he encouraged me and helped me become better and also created games. Also I can say the same for Temp and Khauman. You can do all you want to this game and spend all the money you want on advertising, but it will be futile because there is nothing to keep players hooked. I'm adding this in not as a jest, but as a insight there is a old prestige forum that is more active then this game with player talking having fun and reminiscing the old times. It is also more active then the Atwar official discord that hasn't had a active conversation in 2 years so Lion Sins delete wasn't even major. So please consider letting him come back as a player not as a MOD, and see how the game flourish. Trust me if you started lifting banneds on main accounts CWs and the game would get so much more active. Also your advertising money would go to use because you would actually be able to get players to stay. I also want to thank everyone who helped me from Tungston, Lion, Temp, Khauman, Waffel, CaptainWF, and Palm you made the game fun and it's the only reason I play .

I appreciate your feedback and I do hear you, even if I don't 100% agree with you. Thank you for being kind and respectful.

Általa írva YourSphinx, 07.04.2025 at 19:40

I do have a few ideas on how to give this game a bit of juice, maybe I'll communicate through our favorite German mod.

If you heil him he can give you my personal discord.

Általa írva Waffelo, 07.04.2025 at 19:12

Oh wow, I can't believe that I'm actually reading this Dave

So out of ALL of what I've wrote, this is what you're going to be nitpicking about? Two minor details of a very big picture that has been portrayed before you by not just me.......

Yes because you type too much. I don't have time to read all that. Especially when you start off with a bunch of false crap.

Általa írva Palmitas, 07.04.2025 at 16:06

He apologized and it was one moment that resulted in nothing as it was all saved in a backup.

There was no backup of Discord. He permanently deleted it. All those years of content are gone forever. That's not "nothing".

Általa írva 77TENGRI99, 07.04.2025 at 16:08

Servers down many times in the last few weeks or they very slow laggy

Well it was exactly like I predicted.....

Általa írva Dave, 07.04.2025 at 06:23

I hate to even mention his name, because now it'll only be a few hours until he crawls out of wherever he is and replies from some new alt.....

Like not even an hour after that he showed up and wrote a bunch of posts. I deleted and banned. Immediately after that server started getting ddos'd.

His behavior hasn't changed for 5+ years and counting. So predictable.

Általa írva Metyu, 04.04.2025 at 05:54

Általa írva Dave, 01.04.2025 at 23:14

Általa írva b2spirit, 17.03.2025 at 00:15

(deleted)

Nice necropost

Necropost? It was never fixed.

He's using a post from 4 years ago to bitch about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this post.

Guess it's time to lock the thread.

Általa írva KYBL, 06.04.2025 at 21:34

Joined in 2011, this game was high school for me. Stopped playing in 2016, came back during the pandemic but by that point the game was largely dead. Still come back to fuck around with the maps while listening to podcasts or something.

And agreed with Nero on the safe space stuff. A war-based strategy game is always going to attract the type of people who are interested in geopolitics, and therefore geopolitical banter. It's what made the community what it was.

I definitely don't think atWar is a "safe space", and I wouldn't want it to be!

Általa írva Kaska, 06.04.2025 at 12:29

First of all waffel, you dont know shit about the reasons i resigned. You dont know shit about the way I was as a mod, what m'y opinions are or what I was saying in mod forum

I dont want to argue with you, but your perception of m'y rôle in atwar décline IS Silly

Me having a Big mouth might be a problem but i had nothing to do with most of the décisions that provoked this décline. Ask Nero if you dont trust me. I Never permabanned anyone (except one Guy who was IP fishing).

That being said, it was a mistake to ban all these players due to spam and forum posts, perman ban waffel or chill guys liké Lion was wrong, even Lao who i Never liked, Never deserved that treatment, to Say thé least.

It's another mistake to keep the bans now, general pardon IS needed

Dave it's Time to show that you have a big heart and let this nerds enjoy a truly Amazing game and sherish their souvenirs.

Kaska you're my favorite Frenchman on atWar, but I still can't agree with you.

To be honest I don't even remember banning Waffel, but I guess I must have. As you can see I haven't banned his alt or even deleted his messages, even though they are dumb. I'm tolerating his presence.

What Lion did was unforgivable. Not only did he break my trust, he's made no compensation for the damage he caused. He did apologize which I appreciated, but that didn't undo the damage. So I really can't believe how you support him.

As for the rest, there are really very few people who we bother to keep out of here. I know several who were either banned back in 2021, or deleted their own accounts, who have come back on alts. As long as they don't bother anybody I look the other way and let them play. Not everybody, but several.

Általa írva Ghostface, 04.04.2025 at 11:39

I think dave surrounded himself with the wrong people and whats worse he trusted them and gave them power, which is normal actually the most power hungry people are the ones to make it and then use that power how they want
like Stalin in the Ussr he didnt rule it for so long by being a great statesman for sure , and reading by the comments here on sid u can draw a pretty good parallel, ban dissenters and surround urself with puppets and yes-men.
These are ppl that dont really care about the good of the game but their own ego , if everyone was against them they would permaban everyone destroy the community and leave themselves too just in spite. (which kinda happened already)
If dave thinks hes flawless and hasnt made a single wrong decision in picking staff , bans or whatever then hes an egoist too and theres simply no point to argue about that.
Marking people as toxic and permabanning is also illogical cus who decides who is toxic or not its not a logical measurement , and id bet if u made an anyonymous poll about dave , sid croat or whoever majority would mark them as toxic too.
Many years ago i remember reading the forum drama of croat vs CE, which was some of the funniest banter ive ever read but if that happened today the posts and threads would be deleted, croat would be called toxic,racist and permabaned maybe and CE too as well which puts todays situation in perspective , its probably why nowadays theres not much discussion going on in forums anyway since they have been "sterilized" of toxicity.
Banning or permaban ppl for cheating is k , but permabaning bugs for cheating while slapping pavle on the wrist for the same thing and letting him keep supporter status , id rather u just come and take a crap on my head
than doing this kangaroo court stuff.

I am definitely not flawless.

I've made my share of mistakes. I made Lion a supporter, for example, and gave him access to the official atWar Discord. He repaid my trust in him by nuking said Discord. Obviously that was a bad staff pick on my part. (And this is the guy people want unbanned? Never going to happen.... but I digress.)

On the other hand do I think it was a mistake to ban people who came at me personally? No. Don't come into my house and insult me and then be surprised when I throw you out. (This is how I look at atWar. It's not a democracy!)

You're right in one way though -- it's practically impossible to have a logical measurement of who is "toxic" or not. I don't have any problem with the "toxic banter", I even enjoy it too sometimes. There is a line somewhere that gets crossed and it's hard to say exactly where it is, except usually you just know it because people go waaaaay past it. I think its fair to say this was one of the things we struggled with the most in the moderation team -- figuring out where to draw the line in many different situations.

A lot of moderation decisions are made on a case-by-case basis, and there are very often facts that influence our decisions that we don't discuss publicly. Bugs for example was banned for a lot more than just cheating, and I'm not going to go into it even now. (And I hate to even mention his name, because now it'll only be a few hours until he crawls out of wherever he is and replies from some new alt.....) I'm not condoning Pavle but he was punished appropriately and I believe he's learned his lesson. Those 2 situations are not even close to the same thing.

Általa írva YourSphinx, 04.04.2025 at 00:44

Sphinx.

[Dave]:
Not here to placate waffels 300th goodbye post or stir up past grievances. First, Dave I owe you a small apology for 2022. I never had any grievances with you and still don't to this day. I'm grateful you bought this place and kept the lights on, even if it didn't make financial sense from an IRR perspective. I've long known you've had deranged, resentful communist types in your ear whispering about their grandiose game plans in which you MUST purge players, that just so happen to align with their petty, decade long inferiority complexes. I've never held that against you. More on that later. I've never blame you once for anything that happened here and you have my gratitude. I know I'll take some shit from ole lao for saying this, but who cares, I've always been my own player.

[Nostalgia fagging, can skip]:
Of all of the years I played this game, I'd say 2017-2018 was my favorite, with the covid season being a close second. 2017-18 era was peak competition, aristrocrats, mk, illyria, peaky blinders, amigos and more. I remember I was invited to aristo by Klevis, as probably the only developed rank 7 at the time. Days later, Klevis never logged in again, so I was in search for a new clan. I remember looking at Illyria, one of the three great clans and wanting in. I was hungry for knowledge and Laochra, who I consider the most complete player ever, was who I wanted to learn from. I joined. It was dead. A dusty hall of old legends who hadn't really competed in years. Lao was occasionally dueling but there was no one to clanwar with. I invited 4nic my best friend and 2v2 partner. We began dominating and slowly the clan began to stir back to life. Lao integrated us well, acq became active again, dbacks too, khal for a season or two before he ran off to get married. Chill ran a tight ship, nero was our cheerleader and syrian depressingly wandered the halls, I was in love. I got my friends boywind and witch-doctor to join. We dominated the clan war scene for a year straight with decisive season wins. We had such a stacked squad that our second string could've probably won seasons alone. Everyone hated us, except for us. We had a monopoly on talent, with the personalities to go with it We were a tightly knit clique that other clans tried to emulate, but could never. Total Illyrian Nationalism. This lead to a resentful out group, more on this later.

Covid was a fun season where everyone came back and we had the most active, most competitive season to date. The gameplay was sketchier and more unconventional, but at the end of the day, it was an amazing way to spend the pandemic and have one last dance with familiar friends and foes. And I am grateful.

[The elephant in the room]:
When Dave bought this game there was a power vacuum and extreme information asymmetry from a player to owner standpoint. Asymmetric information occurs when one party has more superior information than another. In this case Dave, who hadn't wasted years of his life on this wonderful game like us, was at a disadvantage. He was brutally taken advantage of by Sid, to no fault of his own. When buying the game, Dave was not aware of the extremely nuanced player caste system, who to listen to, who to avoid, who to trust. it would've been impossible. He was taken advantage of by a resentful player who pretended to have altruistic and unbiased narratives but used the unaware dave as a bludgeon against all of his in-game opponents.

[Mini history lesson]
Mods typically were a combination of player votes and an inner mod conclusive vote. Mods consisted of many well respected, top players with freakish outliers like sultan, google chrome, and a younger version of cold case (he's cool now). Sid was not voted by players nor elected by mods. He spent his time sucking off Sun Tzu, the admin at the time, in a similar way he did to Dave. Sid was quietly and unilaterally promoted by the now disgraced Sun Tzu days before he was demoted for taking bribes from a player to complete a task. Players mostly didn't mind because he remained quiet and reasonable. Years later, during covid, Brian announced he wouldn't have internet for awhile (lol), so Sid was "temporarily" elevated to community manager with a red badge. To no ones surprise, he never stepped down and became some sort of authoritarian right hand admin, who never ever mentioned any of this. During this time he elevated fellow apparatchiks to modship who wouldn't question him. NPCs like lelouch, mobster, dire and others who have came and went. It was a total shit show. There was no longer diversity of thought or opinion, it was a one man regime, with dissenters being demoted or banned.

[The boil-over]
After years of wearing the mask, in 2022 Sid went mask off. Banning waffel and laochra, setting of the 2022 "crisis" events, and despite essentially the whole player base and 80% of the mods telling him to step down, he held on for dear life. Anyone in the "cool kids club" was nuked, players deleted, quit, lashed out. Sure, maybe this game was in decline, but that certainly was a shot of morphine into the artery of atwar. Atwar is like a tree of life, a few established players leave and it causes ripples that lead to many others stepping away. Sid resented Laochra and others on a personal level for his failure to fit in the competitive ingroup. He didn't have the skill to compete or the personality to entertain and instead of doing his own thing like a normal person he harbored that resentment for years until he could go scorched earth.

The end-game
A resentful, freakish, inferior freak tried to convince dave to essentially corporatize AtWar. I look at Sids awful plan like Bolshevism. In 1918, communist freaks murdered the Russian Royal Romanov family in their basement. Tsar Nicholas II, his wife, and their 5 children, the youngest child being 13, were brutally murdered. The bolsheviks killed the children too because they knew that if they left even one alive, the people would be able to cling onto an heir of the throne and it threatened their one party communist rule. You may be thinking, wtf Sphinks has gone insane, stay with me here. Like the bolsheviks, Sid wanted to eradicate all atwar history, as he had never taken part in it. He wanted to dismantle players clans, hierarchies, the competitive system as a whole. These were words out of his mouth. He wanted to flatten this whole game, start anew and be the glorious leader of "hundreds of thousands" of braindead bots, who had no notion of what "Mortal Kombat was, or what a 3v3 Europe game was". I am not exaggerating this plan, he wanted to raze this place for a monetized botfarm. This is sheer resentment of someone who has never won a clan war season, never played a game with the season on the line, climbed the duel rank charts. They wanted it ALL GONE. All of you who spent years contributing to this community were nothing but cattle, replaceable, expendable. During the peak of being high on his own supply he even mentioned that "AtWar would be his retirement plan" once it went mainstream. These are verifiable facts. Once that plan seemed unattainable he just disappeared, leaving a path of ruin and bans in his wake.

[The whitepill]
It's not all doom and gloom. I know for a fact this game isn't near the top of priorities in Daves busy life, especially in this volatile economic climate. But there are many talented, genius individuals here who would love to help you fix this place up and perhaps monetize it better. But thats a conversation for another time. This place is one of a kind, and there are ways to increase revenue and player-count with it becoming a soulless slop-fest. And I appreciate you for at least keeping the lights on for now.

[Final Thoughts]
At the end of the day, AtWar is more than just a game, it's a living, breathing community built by the blood, sweat, and rivalries of its players. Dave, you've kept this chaotic, beautiful mess alive, and for that, we owe you. The scars of the past, won't fade easily, but they're a testament to what this place once was and could be again. There's still life in these halls, still talent willing to step up, and still a chance to turn this into something sustainable without losing its soul. Let's not let resentment or apathy write the final chapter.

Sphinx, I never quite know when to take you seriously or not. I'm going to assume you ARE being serious this time (except probably not the part about Sid and the Bolsheviks) and respond accordingly. (I hope you're not trolling me...)

Anyway, I do appreciate your message and I have no grievances with you either.

I came into atWar admittedly not knowing many things, and, believe it or not, I tried to keep an open mind. I listened to many different voices. Some I agreed with, some I didn't. As long as people were respectful or civil about it, I was too, whether I agreed with their actual views or not. (In other words, just because I get along with someone, does not mean I'm going to run and carry out their vision for atWar.)

That said, there were some people who, for whatever reason, chose to get on my bad side. Laochra was one of them who came at me all combative from day one. That was never going to end well. Sid didn't need to persuade me of anything... people like Laochra and others revealed themselves to me all on their own.

I've met Sid in person and I believe he is a pretty normal, rational guy. I really don't understand the hatred against him. But I digress.

Again I do appreciate the message. I'm still here and happy to talk with you any time.

Általa írva Khauman, 02.04.2025 at 19:06

Atwar has given me rushes I crave for to this day, playing cws for hours and carrying lategame, losing in incredible fashion (thanks tungston and others) or the rush of being someone who I've been trying to beat for months to years. Discussing strategy in this game is fun and incredibly captivating. Trolling low ranks is the equivalent to true happiness, training them is impossible but also a fun thing to try and do.

Helping people get premium, being toxic as hell, im sure most people have had similar experiences when they were low ranks getting dogged on but being able to talk to the vast community. it's been years but I literally remember hundreds maybe a thousand different players even from all the few but valuable years I was able to play. The past is far behind us but I know I',m not just feeling nostalgia, those were great times for not just me but for countless people.

It's easy to blame in hindsight but people move on and this game definitely suffered after people lost the thing that made this game so great : the people who were part of the diverse culture of atwar. Shameful to see this put on blast here and have to relive the sad state of affairs put together by all the players and mods, 99% of people know what the problem is, and I think personally only half or less of the blame can be put on the owner, But rather his advantageous sidekick who swayed him in the wrong direction. Much love to keeping the game running and forums accessible, and thanks to the original devs for designing this work of art.

I appreciate your feedback even if I don't 100% agree with it. I assume you're blaming Sid for atWar's problems, which is unfair. If you want to blame anybody you might as well blame me, even if I disagree with it, because as far as I recall Sid and I were always in agreement with what needed to be done here.

Általa írva Nero, 02.04.2025 at 18:54

Hi I am Nero

I have to post in this before it gets locked, and I'm surprised it hasn't been already. Like many others, this game was my childhood. Other kids had RuneScape or WoW, I had Afterwind. I have years of fond memories, and even served as a mod for a time.

With that out of the way, it speaks volumes alone that the forum is full of the same complaints over 3 years later. It also just so happens that that's about the only activity the forum really gets, maybe new players are put off by the hour loading time that has been present since day 1.

I remember Dave saying he bought the game because he loved it, he saw a future for it. That's why, instead of modernizing some features, he started an anti-toxicity crusade against some of the most established players. And what good did that do? Over 3 years later, the most activity this game gets is transient guests. And yet, here I am posting in a thread made by Waffel. Why would we come to post this after not playing for years? Because WE LOVE THE GAME TOO!

Maybe the administration and I have different views of community, but there has been no benefit to ANY community on this game. All I see now is a barren safe space for no one. People play games for fun, so when you ban or chase out the players having fun, no one will want to play. That's what happened to me, and I'm sure many others. And now that the toxic players and all their buddies are gone, you get no scenarios, no clan wars, no tournaments, and a dead forum. Just the fact that it took a thread from Waffel to revitalize the forums should tell you what you need to know.

I think it's time to admit that a few trolls aren't the worst thing about this game, and that a certain owner took poor advice. That scary toxic community is here years later wishing this game was playable, while the anti-toxicity crusaders have disappeared and left the game in shambles.

I don't exactly agree with your assessment, but I do appreciate your feedback. If we were to talk perhaps you would see things differently from my perspective -- or perhaps we would never agree 100%. But either way my metaphorical door is open to you, any time. (I think you know my personal Discord but if not Sascha can give it to you.)

Hope you are doing well.

Általa írva Waffelo, 02.04.2025 at 16:57

Many of the players that got banned, like Mauzer

Mauzer was not banned. He deleted himself for whatever reason, and he comes around now on an alt. He still plays to this day.

Általa írva Waffelo, 02.04.2025 at 16:57

You claim that you've spend hours talking with me, listening to my concerns, and trying to understand all of it, but that is just a blatant lie.

You know damned well we chatted many, many times right here on atWar. You're cherry picking some irrelevant conversation from Discord and pretending that's the only time we talked, which YOU know is a blatant lie.

I didn't read the rest of your post because you're being disingenuous right off the bat.

Általa írva El Serbio, 02.04.2025 at 14:16

Dave, do you mind spending few minutes to write your plans for this game and everything? Its means a lot to some of us to hear what is happening with this game and future plans for it? When i say future plans, i mean in this year. Thanks in advance.

If you want to understand my plans you can read my past posts. My plans have not changed. Except that I am very unlikely to make any changes on atWar for 2025. I'm not saying any of this to be flippant. I'm just being honest.

Általa írva Palmitas, 16.03.2025 at 18:42

I always said this: I believe that people change. People can sometimes see that they fucked up, and correct it. I believe Dave can change mistakes he did in the past.

As for profits, it is a very tough spot indeed, but you can increase activity by just unbanning people, its a no brainer to atleast start from that and give it a shot.

The only mistake I've made with atWar was actually caring TOO much about the community and what other people think. It caused me to waste too much time talking to people trying to make them see my position. Nobody cares. Waffel is the perfect example. I spent HOURS talking with that dude, listening to his concerns, telling him mine, and trying to reach understanding. Then he goes off and posts things which only show me that he absolutely did not understand anything I said. The lesson I've learned: people are gonna bitch no matter what. Nothing I say will change their minds. Just do what you need to do for the best interests of the game and ignore the noise.

If I had it to do over, I would have banned people faster and not wasted so much time explaining why. Activity was already declining before, and continued declining after.... banning a few toxic people who needed to go didn't do anything to change the course the game was already on. In other words: no great loss. The upshot: somewhat less moderation issues to have to deal with. The trade-off was and is worth it.

It does irritate me however when people say I "don't care" about atWar. It's easy for people to sit back and make accusations when they don't have the real life responsibilities to deal with like I do. I know better than to expect any sympathy or understanding from this community. But I do keep atWar running and deal with the emergencies when things break, no matter how busy I am with other things. Is that the act of someone who doesn't care?