Strategies 2017.

I know i said i was going to step away from any strat changes but doing so just because of the flaming/harassment from a small number of loud players is a poor reason. Players are asking for a few changes and I know nobody else will do it. I was going to wait until the buildings are live but Ivan tells me thats a few months away yet because coding is required and clovis is busy with the mapmaker. Here is what we've got so far.

Desert Storm:

-1 defence to helicopters.

Many players are asking for this. It's hard to deny that it's needed. It is also a pretty minor nerf and will fix that issue where you send a mixed stack of inf/helis at a city to contest expansion and the helis defend randomly instead of the infantry due to them both having the same defensive stat.

Master of Stealth:

-1 attack +1 defence to infantry.

An interesting suggestion by trollface/chess. Personally i think it is worth betaing for a while at least. Anyone who plays mos can attest to its' poor defensive capabilities. The strat definitely struggles in close quarters vs all the competitive strategies even within its niche and this would help remedy that. While it weakens mos' t1 expansion slightly it does improve its' expansion contesting capabilities with mixed marine/inf stacks. The overall net effect should be that of a boost to the strat. It should expand upon the strategies niche where it is only good if played far away from any opponents.

Guerilla Warfare:

Remove marine defense bonus vs infantry.

Gw militia had 5 defence until amok fixed the city defense bonus bug. Defence bonuses were removed from all strats except for gw which was accidentally skipped over. However gw is a very popular strat so most people were ok with it. Gw counters the infantry based strats pretty hard so they do need this.

Blitzkrieg:

+1 range to all units

The idea to to improve the strats unique playstyle as a counter to defensive players.

Iron fist:

+1 range to militia.

This was suggested 5 years ago but not implemented as it was too controversial. Almost all the strategies have been boosted since then and now iron fist finds itself in competition with lb. This will give the strat the ability to use its militia to wall.

Lucky Bastard:

-3 crit to all units

The strat has been continually boosted since its original nerf from +15 crit back in 2011/2012. Almost all the strats have seen boosts since that time and we are now at +13 crit as well as having the cost nerfs to the infantry and militia removed. We've gone too far and need to take a step back. The strategies primary units are militia, inf, tanks and transports. It boasts close to pd defence and ironfist attack without the range nerfs. The only nerfs on the strat are to its tanks and transports. This is not enough given all the benefits.

Feel free to throw out any other suggestions/ideas you have regarding these or any of the other strategies. Maybe its time to revisit blitz or LB. I will update the thread as we go. Please keep it constructive and civil. I will be deleting any trolling/flaming or offtopic comments. Also please refrain from adding the usual reactionary posts to this thread. Let the fun begin.

Support remove -1 attack for SM Inf.

Return this obsolete strat to its former glory.

Dont.. buff.. SM.
Not sure how the buildings will affect strategies but right now +1 att on inf(putting it on neutral) would make it too strong, or in other words, without a weakness.

And idk why but 7 in at compared to 6 feels like 20 in nt compared to 15.

In my eyes, only valid buff (there is no need of it) you could add to SM could be something with militia. Which makes no sense whatsoever > Sky Menace.

Only strats that need a buff are MoS and Blitz. For blitz i would suggest +1 atk to miltias

I think SM is fine as it is.

I love all the ideas. i am not 100% sure how much +2 at capacity will affect sm, but the inf buff is a must imo.

What about RA?

Remove GW marine's +1 def versus infantry in cities. Either that or -1 more range for gw infantry.

MOS is fine. I like the standard infantry, dont turn it into another strat with crappy 3 att inf

Nerf ds.

Sm is fine, if it really needs a slight buff, then -10 inf cost.

Maybe good buff for sm would be 1 capacity on bombers?

Általa írva Oleg, 28.12.2017 at 19:07

Maybe good buff for sm would be 1 capacity on bombers?

Hi you must be a DS player

Can we redisscuss blitz
Its pretty obvious no one uses it....
I think an easy +1 def for mil can fix it
Or on a diff angle -10 cost for tanks could be an intresting change

MoS is fine imo, keep the infantry or you just make a variant of gw.

Disagree with the DS nerf. The point of 5 defence helis is such that even if you stack inf into them, the helis will defend so you kill them first.
I think a inf nerf like -1 range for ds inf would be more appropriate.

Általa írva Witch-Doctor, 28.12.2017 at 15:43

Sm is fine, if it really needs a slight buff, then -10 inf cost.

^^^

Általa írva LukeTan, 29.12.2017 at 01:38

MoS is fine imo, keep the infantry or you just make a variant of gw.

Disagree with the DS nerf. The point of 5 defence helis is such that even if you stack inf into them, the helis will defend so you kill them first.
I think a inf nerf like -1 range for ds inf would be more appropriate.

Általa írva Witch-Doctor, 28.12.2017 at 15:43

Sm is fine, if it really needs a slight buff, then -10 inf cost.

^^^

There's no reason not to nerf the 5 def because it will overall make it more of a glass cannon.

Also NOBODY in existence ever attacks a stack just to kill only the helies. That's because suiciding your unit and making no gain and work against stack bonus is an incredibly stupid and inane thing to do.
They send enough to kill everything.

Általa írva 1GodofWar1, 28.12.2017 at 23:59

Can we redisscuss blitz
Its pretty obvious no one uses it....
I think an easy +1 def for mil can fix it
Or on a diff angle -10 cost for tanks could be an intresting change

Yes i agree with GoW, blitz is currently one of the most pointless strats in 10k and it would be lovely to see it as a viable strat again, altho personally i have to idea what to change, maybe u do?

Általa írva Witch-Doctor, 29.12.2017 at 01:39

Általa írva LukeTan, 29.12.2017 at 01:38

MoS is fine imo, keep the infantry or you just make a variant of gw.

Disagree with the DS nerf. The point of 5 defence helis is such that even if you stack inf into them, the helis will defend so you kill them first.
I think a inf nerf like -1 range for ds inf would be more appropriate.

Általa írva Witch-Doctor, 28.12.2017 at 15:43

Sm is fine, if it really needs a slight buff, then -10 inf cost.

^^^

There's no reason not to nerf the 5 def because it will overall make it more of a glass cannon.

Also NOBODY in existence ever attacks a stack just to kill only the helies. That's because suiciding your unit and making no gain and work against stack bonus is an incredibly stupid and inane thing to do.
They send enough to kill everything.

fair enough, I support the nerf on ds helis then.

Általa írva Enigma Code, 29.12.2017 at 02:12

Általa írva 1GodofWar1, 28.12.2017 at 23:59

Can we redisscuss blitz
Its pretty obvious no one uses it....
I think an easy +1 def for mil can fix it
Or on a diff angle -10 cost for tanks could be an intresting change

Yes i agree with GoW, blitz is currently one of the most pointless strats in 10k and it would be lovely to see it as a viable strat again, altho personally i have to idea what to change, maybe u do?

I disagree with +1 def for mils...
the point is to not defend, what in the world would you defend for?

Idézet:

-

Általa írva Enigma Code, 29.12.2017 at 02:12

Általa írva 1GodofWar1, 28.12.2017 at 23:59

Can we redisscuss blitz
Its pretty obvious no one uses it....
I think an easy +1 def for mil can fix it
Or on a diff angle -10 cost for tanks could be an intresting change

Yes i agree with GoW, blitz is currently one of the most pointless strats in 10k and it would be lovely to see it as a viable strat again, altho personally i have to idea what to change, maybe u do?

I disagree with +1 def for mils...
the point is to not defend, what in the world would you defend for?

well like gow said maybe something like - 10 tank cost and maybe +1 attack for mils? or would mils be godlike then

Would something like +1 att to inf for blitz be viable?

Master of Stealth:

-1 attack +1 defence to infantry.

this sounds good to me..

Általa írva Steve Aoki, 28.12.2017 at 14:21

Dont.. buff.. SM.

K we will discard any sm buffs for the time being. It does seem like all the actual sm players are happy with it.

Általa írva Witch-Doctor, 28.12.2017 at 15:43

Remove GW marine's +1 def versus infantry in cities. Either that or -1 more range for gw infantry.

Support. Gw is a much loved strat but it is a bit too strong atm. It was never meant to get that militia defence buff but people seem ok with it. So i agree with cutting the marine defensive bonus vs infantry.

Általa írva Witch-Doctor, 28.12.2017 at 15:43

MOS is fine. I like the standard infantry, dont turn it into another strat with crappy 3 att inf

Is it though? The only situation where mos is actually good is if youre surrounded by income and nobody picks near you. Oh and when its not a casual game. This change should theoretically expand its' niche and improve its expansion contesting capabilities. MoS is close to being the weakest strat for contesting expansion since the marines dont get an att bonus. Its roughly the same as imp.

Általa írva xBugs, 28.12.2017 at 14:31

For blitz i would suggest +1 atk to miltias

Általa írva 1GodofWar1, 28.12.2017 at 23:59

Can we redisscuss blitz
Its pretty obvious no one uses it....
I think an easy +1 def for mil can fix it
Or on a diff angle -10 cost for tanks could be an intresting change

Nobody uses it? I see it in duels and cws all the time. 2 players on the same team were blitz in a cw yesterday. +1 att to inf or tanks though might be worth adding. Militia attack would be too powerful. A tank boost would fit the theme.

Master of stealth is good as it is. It wasn't intended to be played in competitive games, but it can still be played fairly well. You can play it wonderfully without problems in world games where it shows its wonders as learster demonstrated. If you add +1 defence and subtracts -1 attack from infantry this strategy will be a bit like a great combinator, only here the main attack units won't be visible, which will make this strategy too strong for little Europe.

Iron fist
I suggest to add +1 range for iron fist militia for walling purposes, and +1 range and capacity for air transports. Outside of small maps, Iron Fist struggles to be on pair with any other strats with this changes it might do better.

Blitz
For blitz add +1 defence for militia, and +2 critical hits for inf, or instead reduce tanks cost by -10.

Ra
For RA give tanks +3 critical hits to balance it a bit and reduce inf cost by -10.

Why was mine and Jugers2 posts deleted? Unfair.

Talking about blitz, it doesnt feel like you people value range that much.

But if you really wanna buff blitz then you have to both buff and nerf it at the same time.
+1 attack on tanks is the only thing that makes sense to me, but add +10 cost to tanks too then.

This way, blitz stays aggressive strategy and its actually buffed in that manner, but the cost should stop you from brainlessly spamming shitload of tanks.

Speaking of Blitz. putting aside the obvious flaw of being rush it has difficulty with slowrolling. maybe it can have very cheap and quick units. but with lower power.

for instance:

Inf with 10 range and 2 attack 4 def that costs 30 coins (after upgrades)
tank with 11 range 4 attack and 2 def that costs 60 coins (after upgrades).

I know 2-4 and 4-2 combos seem too little. but with the new buildings it can be great opportunity. (5-2 is also suits. but it can easily become too op) That way you can have truelly light units instead of expensive and vulnerable ones.

On world games it can be very popular amongst beginners (they don't have many strategies they like) and in duels it will have super expansions but opponents will be able to win late turns (turn 9-13). maybe Turkey will even have another useful strategy in duels. regarding CWs it seems to hard to predict. i will leave it for you guys. if not implementing it on blitz maybe you can consider it as additional strategy

Általa írva Steve Aoki, 29.12.2017 at 08:48

it doesnt feel like you people value range that much.

The maximum expansion blitz can make while not getting rushed is less than the maximum expansion sm gc lb or even ds can make while not getting rushed.

It's not about range, it's about how much range you can actually use. SM is better when you can actually maximise your range, or at least better than blitz where you use only half the range of every unit.

Általa írva Abraham, 29.12.2017 at 08:23

I suggest to add +1 range for iron fist militia for walling purposes, and +1 range and capacity for air transports. Outside of small maps, Iron Fist struggles to be on pair with any other strats with this changes it might do better.

nah IF is fine imo I like playing it. You haven't seen how legendary IF rolls are...

Általa írva Abraham, 29.12.2017 at 08:23

Blitz
For blitz add +1 defence for militia, and +2 critical hits for inf, or instead reduce tanks cost by -10.

Ra
For RA give tanks +3 critical hits to balance it a bit and reduce inf cost by -10.

I agree with these though.

Általa írva Permamuted, 29.12.2017 at 08:11

K we will discard any sm buffs for the time being. It does seem like all the actual sm players are happy with it.

Yes, and on top of that any buffs will seriously piss off world 50k players (along with most competitive players).

Általa írva LukeTan, 29.12.2017 at 09:06

The maximum expansion blitz can make while not getting rushed is less than the maximum expansion sm gc lb or even ds can make while not getting rushed.

It's not about range, it's about how much range you can actually use. SM is better when you can actually maximise your range, or at least better than blitz where you use only half the range of every unit.

You can put more units in your cap with blitz and pretty good expansion than with ds/lb or gc with the same expansion (not sure about sm)
How good those units are for defending is a different story.

Edit: and lets be real, you probably played blitz at some point. Its an easy strategy. Your range skills are at the minimum effort needed and thats what i meant when i said that some players dont value range that much.

Blitz is a strategy which is not supposed to have bonuses to defense or HP.

Általa írva Permamuted, 29.12.2017 at 08:11

+1 att to inf or tanks though might be worth adding. Militia attack would be too powerful. A tank boost would fit the theme.

that is the point, make it powerful

"clovis is busy with the mapmaker"
html5 map editor confirmed...

Omg yes ty gw nerf.

time to get ppl off this next level easy strat