9/11, and No Guns means No Right to Self-Defense

Általa írva Unleashed, 13.05.2015 at 04:03

You are blaming guns when some kid shoots up a school but nobody will look at the real issue. That kid is attacked from all angles and feels like killing himself. -> bullying -> stems from trauma (the kid being bullied or beat up at home will then repeat the behaviour and inflict it on others) . Solution: stop child abuse, ostracize parents. If you get shot, what do you do, cover up the wound, or get that bullet out first and do whatever else is necessary for healing? Obviously the latter. So to solve something we go at the root issue.

But no we can't do that. Because 80-90% of people are child abusers, and it takes too long, and we love beating kids. Ban guns instead.

And now someone will read this and call it bullshit or be repelled by it. My ideas are for a perfect utopia and we are light years away. Keep religion around and ban guns instead, it's gonna solve the issue

utopia...bro, is it possible you smoked too much??

i mean, 80-90%? are you trying to tell me that 80-90% of the children in the US could shoot up some school sooner or later or that 80-90% of the american parents are huge irresponsible assholes? maybe your utopia should first build some schools...

i'm not going to call your post bullshit, because its true that there is bullying in schools and workplaces all over the world, and that it is horrible for the victims and needs to be stopped. But, somebody who is being bullied in school doesnt equal a mass murderer and if you dont give these people access to shooting ranges (ages 3+ with parents, of wich some as you stated can be extremely irresponsible) and guns. i dont think one of these psychopaths would have done what they did with a butterknife.there is a difference between someone having a gun and spontaniously, in an act of insanity walking into a school, shooting everyone he sees and someone finding somebody to illegally sell them a gun and then illegally buying a gun and then shooting up a school. more time to think usally results in more rational actions.

Általa írva Tirpitz406, 13.05.2015 at 05:30

i mean, 80-90%? are you trying to tell me that 80-90% of the children in the US could shoot up some school sooner or later

No.

Általa írva Tirpitz406, 13.05.2015 at 05:30

or that 80-90% of the american parents are huge irresponsible assholes?

Yes.

However, I didn't say this will happen with everyone. But in the cases where it does, that's the root issue. But of course you will not believe it and you won't care about it and maintain your opinion, which in turn proves my point. Some kids don't shoot anyone and just kill themselves. Does that mean 80% of kids will? ofc not, but the issue is still there

And there are varying degrees. These are just the worst case scenarios. I didn't say all of them will do this. That's just the degree to which mistreatment and abuse is widepsread. High, as in 80-90%

Általa írva Goblin, 13.05.2015 at 04:57

Actually, getting the bullet out of the wound is a pretty bad idea, once the bullet stops moving its harmless and surgeons leave the bullet inside while repairing the damage ...removing it may cause severe bleeding. So cover up the wound is a better idea before you get medical help.
Movies and TV shows man ...also don't fire your gun like a gangsta cuz you will have the accuracy of a storm trooper xD

Perhaps that wasn't the best example then lol. The point was, to fix something you treat the root issue and not the symptoms

Általa írva Unleashed, 13.05.2015 at 06:14

However, I didn't say this will happen with everyone. But in the cases where it does, that's the root issue. But of course you will not believe it and you won't care about it and maintain your opinion, which in turn proves my point. Some kids don't shoot anyone and just kill themselves. Does that mean 80% of kids will? ofc not, but the issue is still there

you exaggerated numbers a little but americans are still weird:

[...]Sixty-five percent of Americans approve of spanking children, a rate that has been steady since 1990.[...]
( http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90406 )

in germany only 40% approve it, a number i still consider too high, but whatever.

btw, actually i do care, i know that nobody shoots somebody else without a reason, i belive nobody is born evil and guns are just a tool used for killing. but thats the main point, guns make killing so much easier, maybe, you shouldnt hand everyone a tool that he can kill 20 people with by just pointing it at their heads and pulling the trigger?

I feel like having a gun is too much of a tempation... why having it just to keep it inside a closet or inside the cover? This might sound.... violent or even sadistic... but what stops you from using it that day when you feel the world is against you? Or when that girl you like stabs you in the back? Or when those bullies group against you for several months?

Maybe even I would feel the temptation of shooting some morons in an attempt of "superior justice", but still.... that would turn me into some sort of murderer... if I think about it calmly, that's not what I wish to turn into but what if I'm pissed at that moment and I don't even think of the consecuences? I think I'd understand why some people go nuts and start a bloodbath but that still doesn't make it for a legit reason to do such thing. As Unleashed sais, part of the responsability is of their parents, since they're the ones responsable for the kids' education, they need to learn to keep calm and not use those guns trivially. On the other hand, it's also in the kids' personality... not everyone can stay calm or think straight in certain circumstances. It's really difficult to handle a power that can kill others so easily.

When did I say everyone should have a gun? Shit, if you're not over 18 they won't even give you alcohol in some places. Stop putting words in my mouth. I don't want guns for 12 year olds. I am 21. I should have a gun to protect myself if need be. I may never even use it. But I can't walk around hallucinating that god is taking care of me or that the police can save my ass. Sheep can have the illusion of safety all they want, it won't stop the wolf.

Általa írva Tirpitz406, 13.05.2015 at 06:47

[...]Sixty-five percent of Americans approve of spanking children, a rate that has been steady since 1990.[...]
( http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90406 )
in germany only 40% approve it, a number i still consider too high, but whatever.

And that's just the ones who ADMIT it. The numbers are much much higher

Általa írva Unleashed, 13.05.2015 at 07:43

When did I say everyone should have a gun? Shit, if you're not over 18 they won't even give you alcohol in some places. Stop putting words in my mouth. I don't want guns for 12 year olds. I am 21. I should have a gun to protect myself if need be. I may never even use it. But I can't walk around hallucinating that god is taking care of me or that the police can save my ass. Sheep can have the illusion of safety all they want, it won't stop the wolf.

I'm not saying you have. If you're not over 18, just ask others to buy it for you, it's not that hard nowadays. I didn't put any word in your mouth? Even if you are 21 (I'm 22), we all have our bad days, our freaking annoying days, our depressed days, our angry days, being a grown up doesn't make us invulnerable to being down. Haven't you ever yelled at someone just cause you were angry one day and you had no reason for yelling? Idk, anything similar? You might never use it, or you may. It all depends on your nerves, your mood and the environment. Circumstances. I'm the first to know that, God is taking an eternal nap, police always arrives late, if they do, your parents are not always gonna be there for you, etc. My opinion is just that the bare fact of having a gun is dangerous itself. Just an opinion.

Általa írva RaulPB, 13.05.2015 at 07:54

you were angry one day and you had no reason for yelling? Idk, anything similar?

Nope. If I did, it was because that person did something. I don't take shit out on someone who did nothing. I'm caring like that.

Általa írva RaulPB, 13.05.2015 at 07:54

My opinion is just that the bare fact of having a gun is dangerous itself. Just an opinion.

Not having one can be just as dangerous.

In world where you are free (we are not) you can have your own gun, and if someone invades your property or attacks you, you can use it. This is a reality in the US. The US cannot be invaded. If the Russian Army decided to step into Poland tommorow, those citizens would be fish food. If they had guns, nobody would even think twice about attacking or trying to enslave them. Not even their own government.

Általa írva Unleashed, 13.05.2015 at 07:57

Nope. If I did, it was because that person did something. I don't take shit out on someone who did nothing. I'm caring like that.

Maybe you won't because your personality might be more calm or cold. But not everyone is. Here in Spain I know there would be many problems because of the people's personality.

Általa írva Unleashed, 13.05.2015 at 07:57

Not having one can be just as dangerous.

In world where you are free (we are not) you can have your own gun, and if someone invades your property or attacks you, you can use it. This is a reality in the US. The US cannot be invaded. If the Russian Army decided to step into Poland tommorow, those citizens would be fish food. If they had guns, nobody would even think twice about attacking or trying to enslave them. Not even their own government.

It's not like if that were gonna happen tomorrow morning, that's just pure speculation. The most important invade you might ever have to confront is a common thief, which if he's smart enough won't rob you if you're home, so your gun will defend nothing. My opinion is that neither of those options is perfect, they all have flaws.

Általa írva RaulPB, 11.05.2015 at 15:55

No guns and everyone is vulnerable or everyone with guns so everyone is a possible serial killer??

If the Russian Army steps into Poland, and the Polish people are armed...

Good luck to the Russian Army governing some of the most stubborn people of the planet that also now has weapons. Unless their intention is to massacre the Poles, in which case it might work out well enough.

It's going to be as hard as trying to occupy Korea. Partisan warfare all the way.

I think if someone wants to murder, they will do it with a firearm or without.

I think the problem is not the firearm, but the people.

Általa írva theFuehrer, 17.05.2015 at 22:00

I think the problem is not the firearm, but the people.

Of course its a problem with the people, but wish this psychopath tried to kill 77 people with a knife...

Általa írva Goblin, 18.05.2015 at 07:06

Általa írva theFuehrer, 17.05.2015 at 22:00

I think the problem is not the firearm, but the people.

Of course its a problem with the people, but wish this psychopath tried to kill 77 people with a knife...

Jack the ripper, case closed guns unnessacarry for murder.

Általa írva Helly, 18.05.2015 at 13:01

Jack the ripper, case closed guns unnessacarry for murder.

Jack the ripper killed women that he drugged first ...most he killed was 2 in one night.
A child with an automatic weapon can gun down dozen people ...can a child do that with a knife or any other cold weapon?

Általa írva Goblin, 18.05.2015 at 13:08

Általa írva Helly, 18.05.2015 at 13:01

Jack the ripper, case closed guns unnessacarry for murder.

Jack the ripper killed women that he drugged first ...most he killed was 2 in one night.
A child with an automatic weapon can gun down dozen people ...can a child do that with a knife or any other cold weapon?

2 a night for years, is the same equivalent as our shitty society driving white males mad from double standards and blatant atrocities we commit each day, to shoot up a school and kill 30 in one fucked up day. Killing has changed but until we live in a right world a world where no one is better then another based on wealth, race or religion killing will continue. Some people just are not strong enough to handle this bullshit, gun or not they will kill. I rather have my own to fight back. Imagin if every school had teachers who could carry fire arms who would attack those schools?

I'm fine with background checks and mental health evaluations, but I don't see why because of the illegal actions of others breaking the law, we need to pass more laws to limit my constitutional freedom.

Általa írva Unleashed, 13.05.2015 at 06:23

Általa írva Goblin, 13.05.2015 at 04:57

Actually, getting the bullet out of the wound is a pretty bad idea, once the bullet stops moving its harmless and surgeons leave the bullet inside while repairing the damage ...removing it may cause severe bleeding. So cover up the wound is a better idea before you get medical help.
Movies and TV shows man ...also don't fire your gun like a gangsta cuz you will have the accuracy of a storm trooper xD

Perhaps that wasn't the best example then lol. The point was, to fix something you treat the root issue and not the symptoms

They will only leave a bullet inside it if it gets lodged somewhere harmless or removing it would be more detrimental through the removal process than actually having it out. leaving a bullet inside you just means your leaving little bits of razor sharp metal bumping around inside you whenever you run jump sit up, sit down, eat, breath etc and they are moving around pretty much all the time that is very dangerous not taking into account the micro-organisms that could be on it. also when you get old and your body cant handle itself the way it used to that is the first thing that would come back to haunt you.
now i'm not saying i'm a docter but when things like medical educational hints pop up in day to day living i pay close attention in the hope i will never need to know it.

Im fine with people having guns. Are there people that abuse the right t bear arms and use weapons illegally? Of course, and no matter what there will always be criminals who do this. Why my constitutional right should be limited is completely absurd. If laws go in to take guns away all that will happen is good people will be left defenseless and criminals just finding another way to get a gun. If a criminal wants something, they always manage to get it regardless of the law so there's no reason to start placing more limits.

@OP stop watching CNN... It isn't good for your brain and it's filled with crap any way.

Alex Jones is a tool, that's all he is.. That's why he's on CNN

Annnd great, my premium ran out....

Általa írva theFuehrer, 18.05.2015 at 23:19

@OP stop watching CNN... It isn't good for your brain and it's filled with crap any way.

Alex Jones is a tool, that's all he is.. That's why he's on CNN

Clearly. CNN has a fairly obvious social democrat bias. It's still better than the Guardian's environmentalist bias.

That being said, support gun rights!

Idézet:

Idézet:

US police would have monopoly over force.

That isn't a good thing

Általa írva Skanderbeg, 19.05.2015 at 11:31

What if Russia invade Poland and polish citizens use their guns to fight each other? There is no guarantee they will use it against the invader, as Yugoslavia 1991 proved. They killed civilians instead the aggressor. So if Russia invade Poland, there is a 50% chance some of polish gun-owning population support Russian invasion and fight against Polish Army.

True, its very much possible that 13.000 russians, citizens of Poland would fight for Russia ...just like 200.000 Serb citizens of Croatian Republic took weapons and started killing Croatian civilians when Yugoslavia invaded Croatia.

Általa írva Goblin, 18.05.2015 at 13:08

A child with an automatic weapon can gun down dozen people ...can a child do that with a knife or any other cold weapon?

I hope you realize, maybe in a year or ten, that nobody in this thread is advocating guns for children. That being said

Általa írva Skanderbeg, 20.05.2015 at 04:35

Your ethnic bias and fascism is already boring on this forum. Go find some other game to troll.

Inb4 some of my best buddies in this game are Serbs ...while all of them can't stand you. Interesting right?

Btw. i only responded in your manner ...with bullshit. If you cant take bullshit, then don't shit on the forums.

Általa írva Unleashed, 20.05.2015 at 03:34

I hope you realize, maybe in a year or ten, that nobody in this thread is advocating guns for children.

Of course i never considered that ...no need to act sassy Unleashed.

Look btw. of the context of mine and Hellraisers conversation ...it was mainly about the difference of damage that cold weapons can cause compared to firearms.

Általa írva Skanderbeg, 20.05.2015 at 04:41

I ask again: who guarantee personal and national safety if every citizen own a gun? When system collapse - and we know how violent people become then - who guarantees me that my neighbor wont shoot at me?

Who guarantees it right now? If the system collapses right now, who guarantees you won't be robbed and killed in your own house?

If everyone owns a gun, that's exactly who guarantees you can defend yourself: your gun.

Right now, you are defenseless, dependent on a government that doesn't give a shit about you.

Általa írva Goblin, 20.05.2015 at 04:46

Of course i never considered that ...no need to act sassy Unleashed.

I said it twice in the thread. No guns for kids.

Általa írva Unleashed, 20.05.2015 at 05:13

Right now, you are defenseless, dependent on a government that doesn't give a shit about you.

Your government still doesn't give a shit about you either, armed or unarmed.

Általa írva Skanderbeg, 20.05.2015 at 05:22

Right now, state-owned police and laws protect me

Keep telling yourself that