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Küldte Aetius, 22.08.2016 - 10:29
http://pastebin.com/wrT6y55B



Ok I am officially ending the game, sorry that there will be no Grand Finale. None of the Triumvirs except Sertorius wanted civil war. However, the other two guys got absurdly angry at me. One has even blocked me, and imo has begun to take this game way too personally. I don't want to lose friends over a forum game, this is literally the only reason why I am now stopping. Also, a good lesson as to why you keep IC and OOC separate. ....Although in a way I see it as a success I got people to be this emotionally invested in a forum game

gg all, let us now remember the great legends of the roman families

Triumvir Families - these 3 have reached the apex of power, although shared
Gens Sertorii
The Sertorii are an old and powerful family that has been influential in politics and later on in war against the Numidians, Parthians and were regarded as superior naval commanders. They have had 6 consulships, numerous prosecutions, and were always a controlling force behind the populares movement. In the late republic Flavius became the most influential, and arguably strongest of the 3 triumvirs as ruler of the west.

Gens Maria
The Marians are a very old family that was highly regarded for their religious positions. Over the course of roman history they have held a stunning 7 consulships and 1 dictatorship. Much of marian history has been military oriented, known for defeating the Seleucids at Magnesia in early times. In the mid republic they were leaders of the populare movement but were assassinated when political tensions rose, temporarily weakening the family allowing the Sertorii to take control of the party. Later, the ambitious Gaius Marius Maximus became the youngest ever dictator defeating the Socii revolt, and after defeating the massive pontic forces in Greece declared the revolt against the corrupt senate with the aid of Sertori and and Rexians. After Quintus Sertorius died however the rivalry between his son Flavius and Gaius Marius Maximus became more pronounced as they were the two ambitious leaders of the populares and resented each other.

Gens Rexii
The Rexii have consistently been a presence in roman politics, having held 6 consulships and countless other positions. The Rexii are regarded as extremely skilled politicians having risen from former disgrace to great influence and wealth as a founding member of the populares. The Rexii do have a reputation of being greedy, yet their wealth bought them power that can now no longer be denied as rulers of the eastern provinces.


Winning Families- these families picked the right side and successfully navigated the roman game of thrones to high positions of power

Gens Flavii
Of all the families in Rome, the Flavii are the most well regarded among wealthy equites. Long ago this was not the case, but following the downfall of the Numetorii, the Flavii inherited much of the wealth of the Ripam Alexandrie and begun their own steady rise to 2 consulships and numerous censorships and praetorships. Aligning with the populares the Flavii became the political centerpiece of the movement as they secured such influence among the equite class that their power in the senate became overwhelming. Ever after they were given the surname of Cato, meaning wise. And wise they have been, supporting the right side becoming rich and powerful.

Gens Nipii
The Nipii emerged from obscurity in the punic wars, being used as master of horse for less competent dictators. However, in the end they secured their own command becoming heroes of the republic after defeating Hannibal at Cannae. This fame was long lasting but in the mid republic their fortunes began to dwindle as legions loyal to the Nipii were destroyed in the numerous wars. A founding member of the populares, the Nipii have been loyal partisans and this has kept them from sinking lower. Decius began to reverse these fortunes as being part of the battle of Rome and then following Sertorius into the west becoming his heir. The Nipii may rise once again…

Gens Octavii
A wealthy and influential political family, the Octavii were strong allies of the sertorii, and they aided each other's rise. The Octavii had numerous connections throughout the city of Rome among the equites, and were commonly the Praetor, but also have secured Consulship twice in history as well as governorships in cisalpine gaul. The Octavii carefully maneuvered the dangerous political battlefield, never have been assassinated, always working from within the shadows to emerge on top.

Gens Marcii
The family history of the Marcii is a winding but tragic one as well. Over the course of history they have influential, holding 4 consulships and their most famous moment was commanding the sack of Carthage, however Africanus fell to a plague and was later utterly disgraced by being implicated in treasonous plot with the Antonines. Rising from this misfortune they switched parties to the Populares and became a decisive element in the civil war by granting support in return for rule over the Asian provinces. But once again, the head of the family died, this time in battle, reducing the family to mediocrity.

Gens Paulli
The Paulli are a notoriously wealthy but also greedy roman family. They rose to power after falling out with Potestatem party by making deals with the Populares to rule wealthy provinces as long as they turned a blind eye to their corruption. Amassing huge sums, the Paulli were never in Rome for most of their history. But this is not to say they are without merit, for they helped bring roman civilization to cisalpine gaul, and were large bankrollers of the populare movement. In the civil war they grew more ambitious seeking military commands as admirals and growing closer to the Sertorian faction.

At least I am still part of the wealthy 1% Tier
Gens Numetorii
A once more powerful family in the early republic and leader of the notable third party, ripam alexandrie, the untimely death of the head of the family ended this movement. Later on, the Numetorii aligned themselves with Potestatem, but their high status was degraded by being on the losing side of the civil war. The Numetorii have held 4 Consulships, numerous other political positions and were known as saviors of Rome from the Germans and victors against the notorious Viriathus in their brightest moment.

Gens Caetronii
The Caetronii have always been defenders of the roman state, military leaders, above political factionalism. Over the course of history they have held 5 consulships and 1 dictatorship. The Caetronii were known as victors over gauls in early times, but were most influential in the mid republic reaching an apex under Lucius who defeated the Spanish revolts as well as the pirates, guiding Rome through a turbulent political time as a neutral player. In the late republic their fortunes fell as Lucius grew old and his heirs could not defend the republic from the populares. Even so, the Caetronii are a continuing strong presence in the roman state.


At least I am not dead Tier
Gens Cornelli Scipiones
An old and active family, their fortunes rose to supreme heights in the early republic as conquers of Illyria and climaxed with their 1 consulship. Later though they were politically destroyed by the Populares and then fell into obscurity, and when Gnaeus began to rise he was struck down by plague. In the late republic Metellus was known as the most stalwart defender of the senate and fought until the last at Africa.

Gens Varii
From plebian origins, the Varii rose from the lower classes to the senate with the support of the Potestatem party (by giving them huge sums of money). The Varii reached their apex in a consulship with the Numetorii, after defeating a huge german horde in pannonia. After this moment of glory they began to fade as their wealth dried up and the Potestatem lost political power. After the battle of rome they surrendered to the populares but despite this were still executed due to hatred against them from the Marians. Even so, the Varii have not been utterly destroyed as the family still lives on as their recent son has been spared by the now more merciful populare senate due to the passage of time.

Gens Pedii
Plebians like the Varii, the Pedii rose to political relevance in a dangerous political era. With civil war imminent, they were thrust into hard decisions. A marriage alliance almost occurred with the Rexii potentially earning the favor of the populares but this ultimately broken down and the Pedii backed the Senate to their ultimate doom. Despite donating their entire fortune to the senatorial cause, this was not enough as the senatorial forces failed three times in battle. Escaping from the populare onslaught as governer of narbonese Gaul, the Pedii were finally captured after the Senatorial defeat in Africa and exiled.

Losers - families fallen from power, or traitors, or extinct
Gens Antonia, Gens Phoenicii, Gens Maximii , other people who have dropped out

19.09.2016 - 21:56
I purchase a Tribune and roll for an equite without money

Edit: Turn changed, see below
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19.09.2016 - 22:06
Sertorius sits back in his senate chair and gives a small speech

"The victory of Numertorius and Varius over the savage germanic invaders brings great glory to Rome! I cannot say the same of my actions in greece, for their treachery is limitless and I barely escaped with my life after trying to stop their conspiracies. Of this, I am most ashamed of my failure.

However, now that I am back in Rome I would like to second the motion of the Tribune, nominate Gaius Marius to Dictator, and save the Republic from this disorder. No one should question our imperium ever again!

Oh by the way those italians need to stop whining for citizenship, its our privilege."


3 on equite
12 to bank
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20.09.2016 - 00:41
3 talents on Equite
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"Another such victory and I come back to Epirus alone" - Pyrrhus of Epirus
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20.09.2016 - 00:42
I have work for 8 hours today and wont be able to make a decision until 7pm GMT, but if you're all online then we can get phase 2 done quickly atleast. Phone has no data left and I wont be able to use work comps for AW (I cry)
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20.09.2016 - 00:43
3 on equite
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20.09.2016 - 01:50
Changing my turn since that Tribune is 1 time use only and a waste of money. I host games 7 cost, and 3 on equite.
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20.09.2016 - 04:25
All this shit is going on while I'm dead, fuck me
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Someone Better Than You
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20.09.2016 - 04:53
Általa írva Zephyrusu, 20.09.2016 at 04:25

All this shit is going on while I'm dead, fuck me

I think this is the conclusion of mid-republic. 9 turns early republic, 9 or so turns mid. After this is invasion of Transalpine Gaul, Britain, and Germany
Along with Syrian wars and stuff but eh.
We just need to survive this turn
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20.09.2016 - 05:36
Általa írva Darth., 20.09.2016 at 04:53

I think this is the conclusion of mid-republic. 9 turns early republic, 9 or so turns mid. After this is invasion of Transalpine Gaul, Britain, and Germany
Along with Syrian wars and stuff but eh.
We just need to survive this turn

Not Britain and Germany, those happened in Imperial times. Late Republic is the Mithridatic Wars and Tigranes, Parthia and propably also Actium.
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Someone Better Than You
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20.09.2016 - 07:59
Általa írva Zephyrusu, 20.09.2016 at 05:36

Általa írva Darth., 20.09.2016 at 04:53

I think this is the conclusion of mid-republic. 9 turns early republic, 9 or so turns mid. After this is invasion of Transalpine Gaul, Britain, and Germany
Along with Syrian wars and stuff but eh.
We just need to survive this turn

Not Britain and Germany, those happened in Imperial times. Late Republic is the Mithridatic Wars and Tigranes, Parthia and propably also Actium.

Maybe but I saw the cards for the wars that'll be turning up on the website Aetius is using. He might change it but idk
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20.09.2016 - 08:39
 JF.
We should give a big appreciation to Aetius for hosting this game. 17 turns, 51 rounds and it has been consistent every day. Well done.
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20.09.2016 - 09:01
FIELD CONSUL Sextus Varius

Our victories to the North bring great glory to Rome! Under the leadership of I and Numertorius the barbarians to the North were decisively crushed, no longer shall they be a threat to the republic! I for one lost countless legionnaires crossing the Alps and battling the barbaric invaders, among these legionnaires were people much like ourselves, people not granted citizenship even though they have sacrificed just as much for the Republic.

Unlike the ungrateful Carthaginians and Greeks, the Italians have stuck by the Republic, dieing for our cause, serving in our military and being the backbone of our economy, it is time we rewarded them for their sacrifice by expanding citizenship. This is the least we can do for them!

I for one am deeply concerned about the state and the balance of the republic as a whole. Our governors in Greece and Africa were ousted in a revolt far less peaceful in nature. It is time we put an end to those who dare defy our rules, especially those brought into the empire through none other than blood and iron. I have spoken with Phoenicus and we will be deploying commanders and a sizeable military to reclaim our lost provinces.

In accordance with this, I for one have suggested that a massive building up of military commence right away. I have proposed to Phoenicus the raising of 6-8 new legions and 5-6 fleets, to put those who dare contest our dominance of the Mediterranean in their rightful place, the bottom of the sea. It has also come to my attention that Lucius Caetronianus is best suited to take up the mantle of Dictator once more, the man is truly loyal to the state and is by far the most suited for the position.
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20.09.2016 - 09:05
3 on Equite, assign Gaius Marius Minor as priest and proposal for a Gladiatorial games any extra talent needed comes from the Potestatem bank. I also want to take this opportunity to have others donate talent to the Republic, we are going to need the talent for the wars ahead.
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20.09.2016 - 09:23
6 on Equite.
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20.09.2016 - 13:48
3 on equite
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20.09.2016 - 14:00
==Turn 17: Phase 2 has begun==
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20.09.2016 - 15:09
Általa írva JF., 20.09.2016 at 08:39

We should give a big appreciation to Aetius for hosting this game. 17 turns, 51 rounds and it has been consistent every day. Well done.

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ho
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20.09.2016 - 15:22
Dictator Vote
2)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus ) (proposed via tribune)

Consul Vote
2) Publius Numertorius (JF) & Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.)


Censor Vote
1)Lucius Caetronianus (MrArmy987)

Praetor Vote
1)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )

Who will command the Social War?
2) Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.) [Populares]

Who will command the 2nd Roman-Syrian War ?
2) Tiberius Octavius (vale)[Populares]

Who will command the African Revolt ?
3) Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )[Populares]

Who will command the Greek Revolt ?
3) Galerius Nipius ( Death1816)[Populares]

Governor of Africa (if retaken) (winner may reject this)
1)Cassius Caelius (Safari)

Governor of Illyricum(winner may reject this)
2)Nay

Governor of Cisalpine Gaul(winner may reject this)
1)Sextus Varius (Meester)

Governor of Further Spain(winner may reject this)
2)Nay I reject this nomination

Governor of Nearer Spain(winner may reject this)
2)Nay

Levying of Forces
1) 10 Fleets and 4 legions

Force Deployments
1) 6 fleets and 6 legions to Greece, 6 Fleets and 5 legions to Africa, 3 Fleets and 4 veteran legions to Syria, 4 Veteran legions and remaining new legions to fight Social war.

Trial of Quintus Sertorius
1) Innocent
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20.09.2016 - 15:30
Dictator Vote
2)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus ) (proposed via tribune)

Consul Vote
2) Publius Numertorius (JF) & Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.)

Censor Vote
1)Lucius Caetronianus (MrArmy987)

Praetor Vote
1)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )

Who will command the Social War?
2) Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.) [Populares]

Who will command the 2nd Roman-Syrian War ?
2) Tiberius Octavius (vale)[Populares]

Who will command the African Revolt ?
3) Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )[Populares]

Who will command the Greek Revolt ?
3) Galerius Nipius ( Death1816)[Populares]

Governor of Africa (if retaken) (winner may reject this)
1)Cassius Caelius (Safari)

Governor of Illyricum(winner may reject this)
1)Quintus Sertorius Numidicus(Aetius)

Governor of Cisalpine Gaul(winner may reject this)
1)Sextus Varius (Meester)

Governor of Further Spain(winner may reject this)
2)Nay ( rejected )

Governor of Nearer Spain(winner may reject this)
1)Marco Flavius Cato Minor (Witch-Doctor)

Levying of Forces
1) 10 Fleets and 4 legions

Force Deployments
1) 6 fleets and 6 legions to Greece, 6 Fleets and 5 legions to Africa, 3 Fleets and 4 veteran legions to Syria, 4 Veteran legions and remaining new legions to fight Social war.

Trial of Quintus Sertorius
1) Innocent
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ho
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20.09.2016 - 15:55
 Witch-Doctor (Mód)
Dictator Vote

2)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus ) (proposed via tribune)


"Hear Hear! The Senate is now officially in session. We begin with the election of next years Magistrates, nominated by the Consuls."

Consul Vote
2) Publius Numertorius (JF) & Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.)


Censor Vote
2)Sextus Varius (Meester)

Praetor Vote
1)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )


Who will command the Social War?
2) Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.) [Populares]

Who will command the 2nd Roman-Syrian War ?

2) Tiberius Octavius (vale)[Populares]

Who will command the African Revolt ?
3) Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )[Populares]

Who will command the Greek Revolt ?
3) Galerius Nipius ( Death1816)[Populares]



"Now, the Senate shall vote on the proposals of the Consuls. Tribunes speak now or forever hold your peace!"
The Consuls have decided not to propose Lex Julia.

Governor of Africa (if retaken) (winner may reject this)
1)Cassius Caelius (Safari)


Governor of Illyricum(winner may reject this)
1)Quintus Sertorius Numidicus(Aetius)


Governor of Cisalpine Gaul(winner may reject this)
1)Sextus Varius (Meester)
2)Nay

Governor of Further Spain(winner may reject this)
1)Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.)


Governor of Nearer Spain(winner may reject this)
Reject


Levying of Forces
1) 10 Fleets and 4 legions




Force Deployments
2) 7 fleets and 6 legions to Greece, 7 Fleets and 5 legions to Africa, 4 Fleets and 4 veteran legions to Syria,

note: since vet legions weren't specified they will be randomly picked

Trial of Quintus Sertorius

Presiding Censor Cassius Caelius (Safari)
Presiding Praetor Marco Flavius Cato Minor(Witch-Doctor)will gain 3 influence if convicted +15 votes due to oratory
Accused Quintus Sertorius (Aetius ) (+33 votes in his favor due to influence)
Crime Corruption as Governor (Minor Prosecution)
Punishment -5 influence, -5 popularity, lose all concessions, Prior Consul marker

1) Innocent
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20.09.2016 - 15:59
Dictator Vote
2)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus ) (proposed via tribune)
-if 8 or more votes bribed in mrarmy favor and I will bribe one talent to keep the lead, up to a maximum of 20 talents paid from faction bank (ie potestatem would need to bribe 29 talents to win if all populare vote for pyrrhus)

Consul Vote
2) Publius Numertorius (JF) & Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.)

Censor Vote
1)Lucius Caetronianus (MrArmy987)

Praetor Vote
1)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )

Who will command the Social War?
1) Publius Numertorius (JF)

Who will command the 2nd Roman-Syrian War ?
1)Consul Sextus Varius (Meester) [Potestatem]

Who will command the African Revolt ?
3) Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )[Populares]

Who will command the Greek Revolt ?
3) Galerius Nipius ( Death1816)[Populares]

Governor of Africa (if retaken) (winner may reject this)
1)Cassius Caelius (Safari)

Governor of Illyricum(winner may reject this)
reject

Governor of Cisalpine Gaul(winner may reject this)
1)Sextus Varius (Meester)

Governor of Nearer Spain(winner may reject this)
1)Marco Flavius Cato Minor (Witch-Doctor)

Levying of Forces
1) 10 Fleets and 4 legions

Force Deployments
2) 7 fleets and 6 legions to Greece, 7 Fleets and 5 legions to Africa, 4 Fleets and 4 veteran legions to Syria, 4 Veteran legions and remaining new legions to fight Social war.


Trial of Quintus Sertorius
1) Innocent


"I dindu nuffin"
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20.09.2016 - 16:01
Dictator Vote
2)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus ) (proposed via tribune)


Consul Vote
2) Publius Numertorius (JF) & Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.)

Censor Vote
2)Sextus Varius (Meester)

Praetor Vote
1)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )

Who will command the Social War?
2) Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.) [Populares]

Who will command the 2nd Roman-Syrian War ?
2) Tiberius Octavius (vale)[Populares]

Who will command the African Revolt ?
3) Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )[Populares]

Who will command the Greek Revolt ?
3) Galerius Nipius ( Death1816)[Populares]

Governor of Africa (if retaken) (winner may reject this)
1)Cassius Caelius (Safari)

Governor of Cisalpine Gaul(winner may reject this)
1)Sextus Varius (Meester)

Governor of Nearer Spain(winner may reject this)
1)Marco Flavius Cato Minor (Witch-Doctor)

Levying of Forces
1) 10 Fleets and 4 legions

Force Deployments
2) 7 fleets and 6 legions to Greece, 7 Fleets and 5 legions to Africa, 4 Fleets and 4 veteran legions to Syria, 4 Veteran legions and remaining new legions to fight Social war.


Trial of Quintus Sertorius
1) Innocent
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20.09.2016 - 16:19
Subtle...
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20.09.2016 - 17:16
 JF.
Dictator Vote
nay
Consul Vote
2) Publius Numertorius (JF) & Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.)

Censor Vote
2)Meeater

Praetor Vote
2

Who will command the Social War?
1)Publius Numertorius (JF) [Potestatem]

Who will command the 2nd Roman-Syrian War ?
1)Consul Sextus Varius (Meester) [Potestatem]

Who will command the African Revolt ?
1)Consul Valens Phoenicus (Phoenix)

Who will command the Greek Revolt ?
1)Lucius Caetronianus (MrArmy987)

Governor of Africa (if retaken) (winner may reject this)
nay

Governor of Illyricum(winner may reject this)
1)Quintus Sertorius Numidicus(Aetius)

Governor of Cisalpine Gaul(winner may reject this)
1)Sextus Varius (Meester)

Governor of Further Spain(winner may reject this)
1)Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.)

Governor of Nearer Spain(winner may reject this)
1)Marco Flavius Cato Minor (Witch-Doctor)

Levying of Forces
1) 10 Fleets and 4 legions

Force Deployments
1) 6 fleets and 6 legions to Greece, 6 Fleets and 5 legions to Africa, 3 Fleets and 4 veteran legions to Syria, 4 Veteran legions and remaining new legions to fight Social war
Trial of Quintus

2)Gulity
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20.09.2016 - 17:18
 JF.
Why would you guys vote for someone with 2 military skill over someone with 4 and bonuses.

Madness.
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20.09.2016 - 18:04
Dictator Vote
2)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )

Consul Vote
2) Publius Numertorius (JF) & Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.)

Censor Vote
1)Lucius Caetronianus (MrArmy987)

Praetor Vote
1)Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )

Who will command the Social War?
2) Caspiel Rex Secundus (Darth.) [Populares]

Who will command the 2nd Roman-Syrian War ?
2) Tiberius Octavius (vale)[Populares]

Who will command the African Revolt ?
3) Gaius Marius Minor (Pyrrhus )[Populares]

Who will command the Greek Revolt ?
3) Galerius Nipius ( Death1816)[Populares]

Governor of Africa (if retaken) (winner may reject this)
1)Cassius Caelius (Safari)

Governor of Illyricum(winner may reject this)
2)Nay

Governor of Cisalpine Gaul(winner may reject this)
1)Sextus Varius (Meester)

Governor of Nearer Spain(winner may reject this)
2)Nay

Levying of Forces
1) 10 Fleets and 4 legions

Force Deployments
2) 7 fleets and 6 legions to Greece, 7 Fleets and 5 legions to Africa, 4 Fleets and 4 veteran legions to Syria, 4 Veteran legions and remaining new legions to fight Social war.


Trial of Quintus Sertorius
1) Innocent
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"Another such victory and I come back to Epirus alone" - Pyrrhus of Epirus
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20.09.2016 - 19:53
Dictator Vote
3)Nay

Consul Vote
1) Tiberius Octavius (vale) & Cassius Caelius (Safari)

Censor Vote
2)Sextus Varius (Meester)

Praetor Vote
2)Augustus Damasippus (Resting Lime)

Who will command the Social War?
1)Publius Numertorius (JF) [Potestatem]

Who will command the 2nd Roman-Syrian War ?
1)Consul Sextus Varius (Meester) [Potestatem]

Who will command the African Revolt ?
1)Consul Valens Phoenicus (Phoenix)

Who will command the Greek Revolt ?
1)Lucius Caetronianus (MrArmy987)

Governor of Africa (if retaken) (winner may reject this)
2)Nay

Governor of Cisalpine Gaul(winner may reject this)
REJECT

Governor of Nearer Spain(winner may reject this)
1)Marco Flavius Cato Minor (Witch-Doctor)

Levying of Forces
1) 10 Fleets and 4 legion

Force Deployments
2) 7 fleets and 6 legions to Greece, 7 Fleets and 5 legions to Africa, 4 Fleets and 4 veteran legions to Syria, 4 Veteran legions and remaining new legions to fight Social war.

Trial of Quintus Sertorius
2)Gulity
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20.09.2016 - 21:55
 Witch-Doctor (Mód)
Minor vote change
Who will command the Social War?
1)Publius Numertorius (JF) [Potestatem]
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20.09.2016 - 23:31
Általa írva Jo Mama, 20.09.2016 at 23:20

I would also like to buy 40 votes for Dictator Vote: Nay


Please change this so its says enough votes for Dictator: Nay to be successful
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20.09.2016 - 23:40
 Witch-Doctor (Mód)
Általa írva Jo Mama, 20.09.2016 at 23:20


I would also like to buy 40 votes for Dictator Vote: Nay


You really want us to lose to 5 active wars huh.
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